10 Things You Love/Hate About Shanghai

I found a very interesting thread titled 10 things you love/hate about Shanghai? on Shanghaiexpat.com. It looks so interesting to me as a local resident. I have request permission from the authors so I can publish the list here. Here are my summary. I’d better not to quote the interesting explaination about why they like or dislike without their permission first. But do read the original text to get a good laugh.


  • Safety
  • Food
  • Low Cost of Living
  • Public Transportation
  • Simple Lifestyle and Family Values


  • Being pushed and shoved around, queue jumpers
  • Poor hygiene
  • Night life is too expensive
  • No foreign language bookstore
  • Not being able to communicate

My Comment

They posted very good summery on their views to Shanghai as a foreigner. There is almost no surprise for me when I see the list. The only exception is “Public Transportation” in “likes” side and “lack of foreign language bookstore” in “dislikes” field.

So if you happen to be in Shanghai, what is your 10 Things You Love/Hate About Shanghai? Or 10 Things You Love/Hate About the City you Live?

Update January 15, 2003

After got kellian’s permission, I happily quote her wonderful article here. It is very interesting.

ok- Love:

1; FOOOOOD- Man they have the best food there- a vegetarian’s paradise, and so healthy compared to American stuff

2: Family values: yeah yeah cheesy I know, but I feel like it improves my quality of life just to see happy families of couples that like each-other taking care of their kids and parents and actually seeming to enjoy it.

3: Less in-your-face sex and violence marketing. No reality tv shows, you can go to the movies or open a magazine and not be embarrassed- I really feel like art and movies are better cause they’re small scale and can’t use sex or violence as back-ups. WHAT??! we need a script?!

4: Kids are kids- they play, they laugh, they don’t wear makeup till they’re in high school, they don’t dress like britney, they don’t ask for land rovers at 16, no serious drug or violence troubles- definitely a more innocent life

5: Opportunity: I can do stuff in China I could never do at home, I’m comfortable, I’ve been in a rock band and on TV and can teach what I want to teach and when, there’s a lot of freedom.

Don’t love:

1: Being so far from my family: I really like my family and it sucks being a 24 hour flight away from home.

2: Being a foreigner: sometimes it just really sucks always being the outsider

3: The expat community: sorry guys- I know there are lots of nice expats in the city, most of them probably on this forum- but I’ve met a lot of nasty, snobby, sleazy, weird-o expats in this town (and I’ve lived abroad before, why Shanghai gets ’em all, I don’t know). The Chinese have by far been friendlier and more accepting than “my own kind”, and boy is that a slap in the face sometimes.

4: Hygene: you get used to it, but it still gets me the way that people treat their houses and streets and selves…whooo..

5: Lack of straightforwardness in Chinese culture: This is just the culture, it’s just the way it is and I’ve learned to accept it, but the Chinese will lie through their teeth, they’ll cheat you and never think twice, nothing’s ever certain and you will never ever ever get a straight answer. That’s just how they do it and I’ll be damned if I ever make sense of it- or understand how anyone ever owns any sort of business in this country, but they seem to make it work somehow.

You’ll seldom hear anyone say “I Love it here!” or “I hate it here!” cause I’d probably say most people can’t even figure it out for themselves. Some days its amazing. Some days you hate everything Chinese. That’s what makes it fascinating I guess. I’ll never figure these people out, no matter how long I’m here I can never predict what they’ll do- sometimes someone will commit some amazing act of selflessness and nobility for no reason- and then a half hour later so something so small and slimy you just wanna smack them. But I’m still here, so I guess that means the good outweighs the bad for me!

100 thoughts on “10 Things You Love/Hate About Shanghai

  1. Well, mine are pretty much the same in fact. I find the ‘lack of foreign bookstore’ quote a bit strange though – I think the one on Fuzhou road is OK.

    I’ll explain one of the others to you. If you’ve ever lived in London, as I did for 28 years, public transport here is a dream. Believe it or not, the London Underground is slower, dirtier, more crowded, more dangerous, has no air conditioning and costs about 60 kwai FOR ONE DAY.

    It’s a bit sad too that expats moan about not being able to communicate – yes, it would be nice if more people spoke English but at the end of the day if you want people to speak English, stay in the US or Europe!

  2. Well, I don’t understand why Jianshuo thinks “good public transportation” in Shanghai is an “exception”. Actually in all the cities in US (except New York), the public transportation system is very poor, you never expect you can rely on public transportation here in US. I believe it’s the same in Europe. While in Shanghai, i can go anywhere i can think of by bus or metro.

    About the communication, maybe it’s not Shanghai’s problem. nobody should expect local people to learn your culture/language. so it’s always expat’s responsibility to be more active to learn…and actually that’s part of the purposes of their living in Shanghai (to experience more culture difference and to learn more).

  3. Oh. I understand it now. In U.S., most poeple have cars and the public transportion is just one option. But in Shanghai, it is the major transporation. There are so many bus lines connecting all the areas of the city. I am dreaming of having a car so I don’t need to wait for the buses or metros and don’t have to be “pushed and shoved around”. :-D

  4. Vicky,the public transportation system is bad in US, UK, Italy,not good in France, Nederland, good in Belgium, Germany, and nearly perfect in Switzerland(the train brings you up to the top of snow montain, so you can just dump out and start skiiing)

  5. Yes. Your comments let me take a look at Shanghai from other eyes. It seems so – the metro is clean and modern – although it is too crowded in the morning, especially the transition between Metro #1 and Metro #2 at People’s Square

  6. Hi Jianshuo

    How was your meetup last evening?

    Just got back from Shanghai, & would certainly echo Phil’s comment, having lived & worked in London for nearly 9 years. I deliberately used the Shanghai Metro (almost) exclusively on this trip, & was very impressed (despite the at-all-hours crowded conditions).


  7. Advice to all white foreigners living/visiting in Asia:

    Please be more considerate, you order 1 glass of beer during peak time and sit for hours in the restaurant and get offended when the waitress ask you to leave so they can have the table for other customers. You can do that back in your own land(Australia,Europe,US or whereever you come from) where life is moving much slower.

    Please walk faster on the street. You walk as slow as a snail and annoying other people. If you want to walk slower, then go to the left side or corner dont walk on the middle of the path thinking the whole street belong to you.

    Backpacker you are not welcome to shanghai with your thong or sandal and oversized bag on your back. Many of you backpackers come to singapore as tourist and later end up singing on the street or selling ice cream or even enrolling in language schools believing that you can teach english well just because you are white or hoping to get rich asian man or lady to support your living. If you want to come to work then apply for working visa not tourist visa!!

    Expatriate please educate your children. We dont like the scene of two underage white children in school uniform kissing each other in public, playing skateboard disturbing other pedesterians or young girls dressed like a whore smoking their cigarettes in front of shopping malls.

    You come to our land establishing organisation/club for your own race or magazine targeted for your own race. Why all the fuss? You can do that in your own country where a lot of your kind. But please dont do it in our land. If you want to come here then start to live like a local.

    And please understand that all of the above is not based on racism. We dont have organisation such as KKK in America, BNP in England (against non white). We never have the history such as Hitler of Germany killing jews, killing the black aborigines in Australia, maoris in New Zealand, Indian american. We dont have government policy or party with the motive of against non white people in your country such as in europe, and australia (one nation, pauline hanson). You can search on the internet thousand of website established against people of other races than white (black, asian, chinese,jews etc) but none established by us. If we are racist we would be starting to kill you and your race on our land since you are a minority here. But we never done it as we are not as barbaric as you.

    Probably this old saying would best explain everything “if you are in rome, then do like the romans”.

    If you cant agree with that then please go home and go back to your own land as we do not welcome you and dont want you to be here.

  8. Joey you sound like a disturbed man..

    Trust me, seek professional help!

    Your intolerate, almost rasistic behaviour towards foreigners sounds interesting.

    I have a master in pschy. from USA who currently works in Beijing, your attitude towards us is offending and rude like we ever did anything to you…

    you’re a sad person!

  9. Joey, you need to travel more.

    When Chinese move overseas, they do what you accuse expats of doing in China. They congregate together in their own little areas in any major city (Chinatown) eat only Chinese food, form and join Chinese only clubs, have their own Chinese newspapers, live in mainly Chinese areas, work as (real) whores and even sell ice-cream and wear cheap clothes. And sometimes get a rich western man or woman to support them.

    In other words, Chinese living overseas do most of the terrible things you hate foreigners or visitors doing in China. But since you are blinded by prejudice, unwise and untravelled, you don’t understand this. You think it only happens in China.

  10. Unlike most people here, one of the things I hate about Shanghai is its safety. But that’s coming from someone who was mugged on her tenth day in the city, which I gather is rather atypical. Considering that I was carrying a cheap, plain nylon bag, and wearing a (non-branded) t-shirt and pants that I’d bought from here, I’m really rather concerned that visitors should not feel that “low crime is no crime”.

  11. Well oh well oh boy…

    I have read the comments from Joey and the others,

    and I have to get this out…

    I am a foreigner in Shanghai, and I’m proud of it !

    It is a fact that most chinese (including my girlfriend) simply do not understand anything outside their own country, because all information given to them only focus on the outside world, seen through the public BIG FILTER.

    I guess you know which.

    And then they don’t care anymore, because they can’t change anything anyway, as there are no democracy here.

    It may be easy for Joey to have such sad feeling for foreigners.

    (And I’m wondering if Joey have some major other problems in his life…?)

    The foreigners are here because CHINA NEEDS THEM. Believe it or not.

    We foreigners teach the chinese companies and workers how to make better quality and to sell the produced things to the outside world.

    Believe me, I have my share of quality understanding problems with chinese every workday, and most chinese businessmen’s psychology are NOT easy to understand !

    The psycology is definitely different, as the truth is a flexible thing for them.

    If the chinese could do everything by themselves, foreigners would simply be out of job here, right ?!

    The chinese needs them for getting better, so they can keep (or steal) all the technology they haven’t developed themselves, because they haven’t been encouraged and allowed to think for themselves.

    Then they gladly copy everything, and made by workers who are working for 5% of the salary in the western countries. And sell it to the western countries.

    Just beware of WTO, because there are rules for cheating in the world money game.

    The labour unions and parties in the western countries have struggled for better salaries and living conditions for more than 85 years.

    But now everything is going slowly down for western countries, because we are crazy enough to buy the cheap things made in China, not thinking of the fact that we break down the walls we have built ourselves for so many years.

    So, Joey, the world is not black and white, but simply dirty grey for us all !

    I know that about 25% of the foreigners here unfortunately are thinking that they own the whole world, but still, China needs them.

    If you want straight purity, go to North Korea and be happy; there are really NO foreigners ! It is more difficult to get a visa to that country then to win a car in the lottery. But if you’re a communist you might have a fair chance.

    Regarding killing millions, chinese authorities have laws that don’t allow me to tell you what happened in Tibet about 50 years ago, I’m sorry.

    If you knew the facts, you would just shut up with your bullshit.

    Final line : Joey, which mobile phone do you have ???

    Entirely designed by chinese ?

  12. When I label people, i label them as good/bad, smart/stupid, considerate/rude,etc rather than white/black, Chinese/UK, Christian/Muslin.

    Yes, Jeoy, there are a lot of white red-neck trashs around in Shanghai. But this does not mean all expats are bad.

    Sputnik, i think you also need to travel more since many oversea Chinese are doing terrific jobs in those most reputable companies in the world. Here in US, we also have St. Patrick day to honor Irish American’s contribution to US, Colombus day for Italian American, and Porte Rico day, Jewish Holliday, Chinese New year parade, etc. We Ameican don’t think this is a “terrible” thing.

    30 years ago when Japanese companies exported their “better and cheaper” products to US, it did irritated some union workers here. They called Japanese “stealers”. But no matter what kind of noise they made, the world ended up getting better products from both Japanese companies as well as improved US manufactures.

    Today US and EU companies are thifting their manufacturing sector to China. They also want a piece of chinese consumer market. This allows China to learn from the outside world(both success and mistakes) as well as contribute to it by lowering Consumer Price Index of most western countries. (This also forced Carsten’s hometown neigbours to seek other opportunites to suit themselves into this fast changing global labor market. I believe most of them will do well.)

    The new trend of globalization is making the whole world more and more like one family. Find a positon in our big family and contribute to it.

    Racialism is a disease of human being. It costed lives in our history. Let us work together to cure this.


  13. Hi Shen

    You’re right, luckily my people are very flexible and high educated,

    so now we need more workers from outside.

    A difference between China and Japan is, that the japanese were allowed to think freely and make new design, without the pressure from Big Brother. By doing that it was possible to “steal the best” and then do it better.

    See Sony, Honda and Toyota which are sold in much higher numbers than US cars, not because they are cheaper, but they are just better.

    Anyway the US imported for 30 bill. US$ more than the chinese bought of US goods last year, so the balance IS uneven.

    (I don’t know for europe, possibly same figures)

  14. Hi,

    I’m looking for information about public transit in Shanghai, but it seems the websites are all in Chinese. Can anyone tell me about the price for a monthly pass to use all public transit in Shanghai? Or maybe lead to a website in English that posts the fares?


  15. Hi AIRINC (- a computer brand or a human being ?)

    The way to go in Shanghai is to buy a plastic card, the “Shanghai Public Transportation Card” operated by SMTCC.

    It’s 30 RMB at any subway station or dealer, and at the cashier you can add money all up to 999 RMB.

    Don’t loose the card – there is NO code or anything to prevent others to use it.

    It is valid for ferries, taxis, buses and trains (but strange to say not the Maglev-train, that would be convenient).

    The logo is a white zigzag lightning on blue/green background.

    Some bus lines still requires cash, so you have a few RMB in your pocket.

    Remember to show your card to the driver before you start the ride in the taxis, not all have this function up and working.

    In fact, if you are VERY tough you can actually save money, because they have to take your card as only payment. But – I guess that you will get in trouble !

  16. Hello everybody, let’s get back to the 10 love & hate things:

    I have arrived this Wednesday and here’s my top 10


    – Enormous opportunity for my new business

    – Absolutely fabulous & nice people

    – Most interesting history

    – Delicious hairy crabs, chili chicken, spinach & garlic & dumplings etc etc etc

    – Beautiful park next to famous small dumpling restaurant

    – Beautiful surrounding ( I want to go to Suzhou to admire the flowers)

    – Modern Art (I haven’t seen any yet, but I am keen)

    – Fun city (rules for taxi driving, toilet maps, receipt with scratchies etc etc)

    – Allowing my family to live an interesting period of our lives and learn Putonghua

    – So many more things to discover that I will love

    I DON’T HATE SHANGHAI but I dislike

    – Begging mothers/fathers/kids

    – Too much Louis Vuitton & friends

    – Expensive residential housing

    – 24 hours unmotivated tooting of horns

    – Small taxi cabs

    – Expensive intl. calls

    – That I lost my mobile phone yesterday xdaII in the New World area

    – Arrogant people

    – Traffic jams

    – Too many People on low income / low education jobs

    I hope I did not offend anybody and if please accept my apologies and forgive my ignorance.

    Thanks a lot for reading and let’s focus on good things and how to make things better.

    Uli Kaiser

  17. i’ve just been to Shanghai again last month. in fact, i regularly go there to get some bitter-sweet air reminiscent of my lonely childhood.

    and what impressed me most was the taxi-drivers’ cordiality. i mean, when they know u r not a local and if u happen to have trouble finding the restaurant or hotel u want, they really could try their best to give u a hand and care not about the fee.

    recalling the last day when i was in a rush heading for the airport, the driver did find a shortcut for me and, what’s more, as i was in a bad mood that morning, shedding tears silently at the back seat, the kind guy just considerably kept handing me the tissue. and when i eventually managed to stop crying, he began to sing a Cantonese song for me and tried to cheer me up (BTW, i’m a Cantonese). his funny tone amused me and made me feel like, well, as if i was on my way home on one of my folks’ car.

    so now shanghai is not just a part of my childhood memory, but also a place that has an emotional link to my present life. i think all the shanghai people should be proud of their taxi-drivers, for they’re the best so far as i’ve ever seen.

  18. I am happy that you like the Shanghai taxi drivers. Most of the drivers, especially those from the larger taxi companies are very professional and helpful. Of cause there are still bad taxi drivers. You can find some of them at the airport.

  19. The following is just my opinion of a shanghai girl. I just hope everyone coming in Shanghai

    have a nice memory. Most Shanghai locals are kind, nice, warm_hearted. If you come accross some unkind people, please forgive them. They are also human~~

    I DON’T HATE SHANGHAI but I dislike

    – Begging mothers/fathers/kids

    —> most of them are not shanghai local people.

    – Too much Louis Vuitton & friends

    —> I’m shame for these~~~~

    – Expensive residential housing

    —> I agree with you~~~

    – 24 hours unmotivated tooting of horns

    —> You will find this is getting better if you live in shanghai for a long time~~

    – Small taxi cabs

    —> Just like what Denise mentioned, most taxi drivers are kind.

    – Expensive intl. calls

    —> You can buy IP card for your intl. calls

    – That I lost my mobile phone yesterday xdaII in the New World area

    —> I’m so sorry to hear that~~~ Do take care your belongings. I experience this several

    times~~~ most of them came from XingJiang or northeast. If you can tell their

    feature, you can avoid much.

    – Arrogant people

    —> I don’t know what kind of our behaviors make you feel this. Anyway sorry.

    – Traffic jams

    —> Our government is try to improve this. If you stay here for a long time, I think you

    will notice the improvement.

    – Too many People on low income / low education jobs

    —> I wonder why you hate this~~~ What do you mean low education jobs? I won’t look

    down on those who make money on their own no matter the job is good or hard. In

    fact I respect those dustman, hardhat etc. They make money by their hands

    instead of begging. I think every city has this kind people~~~

  20. transport is poor in shanghai. what is the point in saying it is also bad in london or new york? that doesn’t stop it being bad in shanghai…the question was what do you like and dislike not what is the best town in the world..

  21. Hi everyone!

    I wonder if someone here knows about working visas for Europeans coming to Shanghai. I am being relocated to this city in may, 2005, I got a two year contract to work as lecturer in a university, and my partner is coming with me. He would like to work there but he cannot get a work visa cos he has not found the job yet, and I have been told that he has to apply for a tourist visa, then if he found a job in Shanghai he has to come back to Europe with his work contract, apply for a work visa and then go back to shanghai.

    Has anyone here a similar experience? Then please tell me how you did it. I want him to come to stay in China with me. Thanks a lot. Silvia


  22. Hello all, I’m a african american male aged 39. Can anyone tell me about job

    opportunties in shanghai. I’m looking to relocate there in 2007. My backround is

    naval engineering and I will have a Bachelor’s Degree in workforce education. Can anyone direct me to forums or website for job listings in shanghai. Any other comments would be appreciated. You can reply at mmm38@earthlink.net or this site

  23. i’ve been to shanghai several times already since early 2004(sometimes with my children as well) for a 30day vacation/visit and up to this date, bcoz of the opportunity that my hubby works their as a senior project designer, we can also be called expats, though we’re asians, still in the realm of asian countries,fyi.


    1. helpful & very detailed/updated tourists maps!!! w/codes for BUS NO. & TRAIN STATIONS. (this is helpful to me,specially my husband is at work), i can pretty much decipher the places of shanghai all by myself!!!..specially when my kids gets bored inside the flat

    2. unwavering FOOD delights!!!..different tastes, a lot of good choices.something different in our taste buds (of course, when my kids are gone w/all the American fastfood outlets e.g. mcdonald’s, kfc, pizza hut, etc.)

    3. shopping malls!!! in every corner of the streets.

    4. simple living, even when you’re an expats/tourists..you can do so (that is, by choice)

    5. courteous & friendly local people (FYI: i’m referring to the place to where we’re staying/living) that is at Zhang-yang Lu cor. Ju-Ye Lu, Pudong New Area.. even from the apartment’s staircase, the adjacent flat housemates, from the common park area, or even in the market place!!! not to mention also the security personnel and the mini-store vendors!!.oh they are all so friendly and cheerful people!!!

    6. can’t wait to be in shanghai again soon, maybe!!!


    1. spitting! yeah i know its part of the locales culture, but spitting immediately infront of us, even in my kids.. whew.. was a shock! I think, there could be a more subtle way of doing that, having lots of spit trash bins???in every corner of the streets or even along the streets in which they can spit all the time they want….well, just a thought(“,)

    2. the rush hour fever!,, being caught in that time specially when it’s

    chinese holidays, whew.. almost all the places we’ve been there’s a lot of people, malls.. the train station specially at the people’s square (where you can transfer from line 1 to line 2)

    that could be all for now..till next visit, maybe

  24. Hey Joey i dunno what you have to drag Singapore into this but trust me if any particular race/ group of foreigners is giving Singapore and its people problems, then it gotta be the chinese.

    Singapore is spelt with a capital “S” by the way.


  25. En, As a Shanghaiese, I don’t quite see why those are particular characteristics of Shanghai. I do believe, however, it represents China in general.

  26. So the majority of people in Singapore the problem? yeah lets wipe out the people who made the nation state what it is. oh, carsten, you don’t know a thing about economics, so shut up.

  27. Hey stupid ant, i dont even know what you are talking about. The people who are causing problems in Singapore are not Singaporeans but the cheenas…argh..fuck off…if you are not happy being a chinky in Singapore then get lost…go back to china.

    PS: And dont pretend as if u know heaps about economics when you are from a land of communists.

    PPS: I dont usually resort to names-calling unless some stupid idiots started it off first!!!!!

  28. If you know English, you should know I said “FOREIGNERS” and the chinese are FOREIGNERS in Singapore. Singaporeans of any ancestry are still Singaporeans whether they are black, white, brown, yellow or red.

    BTW, Ant doesnt even seem to think of a nation according to the nation’s status, the zitizenship it gives out etc. He thinks of it in accordance to skin colour and race. by the token, can you say Americans are English? Fuck off…and btw, most Singaporeans (even if they are Chinese by ancestry) hates chinese from China..dont u know most china women ended up as prostitutes in Singapore? I heard the same thing is happening in Malaysia, Japan, Korea and as far as I know, Australia is also having a huge influx of cheena whores!

  29. enough of those narrow minded stuff, “most china women ended up as prostitutes”? haha. go back your single cell and suck your own nuts. loser.

  30. I dun even have to say much. Just look at the numbers of china women who throw themselves at foreigners? Ask your mother if u are chinese..and God bless if u are a foreigner that you have not pick up one of those women.

    It disgust me that each time I walk on the streets in China, there would be at least 10 women who try to chat me up, pretending to be friendly to foreigners or attempt to teach me mandarin. Would you find American womens doing that off the streets of New york, trying to chat up guys from China?

    Wake up!!

  31. Seems like Oncerest travels quite a fair bit but is ignorant of that fact that many china women do end up (yes,sadly) as prostuitutes in other countries because they cant find well paying/ respectable jobs overseas. Taiwan is one such example, Japan is next, there are heaps in Europe (illegal migranjts who have to work in brothels to pay off their “travelling expenses” to snakeheads and in Singapore where many “study-mamas” work in sleazy massage centres, karaoke and such “in order to keep their child in Singapore’s schools”.

    Funny though, why would anyone want to go all the way to another country only to cheapen themselves? Only the Chinese women do that.

    These study mamas can jolly well remain in China and send their child to school in china (i’m sure there are good schools in china too) instead of becoming a whore or kept-mistress in a foreign land. These women break up happy families thinking they can lead a better life (if the man marry them) and I dont believe their main motive for leaving china is for their child. Have you heard of “Huang Na”? And just recently another study mama was murdered for cheating on 3 men who kept her as a mistress. She has 12 years old son. Shame on her. She deserves it. Sorry by cheap women like her really deserve a worse death than that!

    I also dun see any need for womens in France or Taiwan or Sount Korea to “migrate” illegally. Do they really believe they can have a better life in these country by prostituting themselves??? Is it possible to kinnap tens of thousands of china women for the international sex industry? Or would you rather let your commonsense tell you that they wanted this to a certain degree?

    This is how I look at china women. And im sorry that you are chinese oncerest but this is sadly true of china women (most anyway). There are a few good ones here and there but MOST are cheap ones. The better ones are probably in China (excluding) which is why they dont disgrace their country and themsleves.

  32. Typo

    (excluding Shanghai)

    I may be wrong but I sort of noticed that decent womens come from anywhere in China except the Shanghainese who in turn think they are a better breed than other chinese.

    I get chat up by china women in Shanghai but not when I am in Hong Kong.

  33. The most hilarious comment by Joey is to walk faster. Maybe I’m the only foreigner who likes to walk fast, but trust me, you cannot have been stuck behind as many foreigners as I have been stuck behind 1. old ladies, 2. office girls walking arm in arm with big umbrellas, 3. scooters on the sidewalk, 4. vendors repositioning their carts. Give me a break.

    Fair play to him over the issue of getting moved on during a busy period in a bar. I think this is telling though. He’s almost certainly a service person in a bar who probably sees the worst of a lot of foreigners. But tell me, Joey, can I judge all Chinese by guys in a KTV at 3am?

    The rest is just pure flame. Silliness.

  34. JL

    it is sad that you believe that the women deserved to die, most chinese families care alot about the education of their children and would do anything to see them succeed in life, and will do anything for them to have these opportunities. However not everyone has financial resources at their disposal, and although prostituting oneself is morally wrong, it is seen as a way to some people to support their families.

    also i don’t know why you would think that shanghainese women are not decent, are you familiar with alot of them? its not entirely fair that you would judge the majority of people on perceived views, especially ones like ‘they think they are better breeds..’

    ps. mayb the ones in hk didnt find u appealing enough

  35. Message to Joey:


    Face it, in this day in age everyone needs everyone (regardless of whether they are asian/caucasian/eurasian or anything else) if they want to keep growing and remain competitive in any aspect of business. This is globalisation.

    You need to change you attitute towards foreigners in China because there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!

    And you will probably be a much less angry person.



  37. WTF? Is it a pre-requisite to have shitty grammar to get sent to Shanghai? After reading this rather entertaining thread I can’t tell who the locals are and who the expats are.

  38. I am Brazilian, would very like to know Shangai. In accordance with my knowledge and my form of see the things, I don’t believe that all the Shangaineses as also all the Chinese are xenophobics.

    Historicaly the Asians had always been more closed people, very serious, averses to any another race. This is not racism, is simply a protectionism taken root in its culture so that the families fortified the tradiction/knowledge that were passed to other generations.

    Let us see I for example, I have a personality more calm, not taste very of sprees, taste very of philosophy, psychology, love the businesses. But until in Brazil it has descendants of Asians here who do not like Brazilians. They do not like because the Brazilian does not like to work and alone he likes spree.

    As in all rule she has exceptions, has different Brazilians, as also has different Shangaineses and as has different Americans and other foreigners. What it only happens is that our mind finds more easy to ignore to all.

    Shangai for the stories, photos and videos is a pretty city, very promising. But nothing perfect does not exist, and everything what if it desires to become perfect finishes flat and give stress. Concerning the opinions that the city suffers. The Chinese with its wisdom of more than 5000 a thousand years, would have to know that we must receive you criticize them in the same way that we receive the compliments and not to create I tie staff with this.

    Jackass, people who do not want nothing serious, that they want is alone to bagunçar, we must not consider any one of its pronounced words. Is a bit of persons wich don’t have a brain in your heads.

  39. BOOKSTORE your in fucking china what the fuck would they want an english bookstore for as for communication dido when in rome an all that shit. Yeah the traffics bad the fucked up beggers is bad the pollution is bad but the people if your not trying to get something for noting from them they are awsome the most friendly and the hardest to piss the fuckoff. My best example would be a small bar in malu the cheer and cheerfull I was in malu for 7 weeks and 3 days back in my home town god I misss that place nore thatn when I was there thinking of home the girls there made it feel like home espescialy coco, fang fang, and lucy wish I was there now.

  40. I fail to understand the tone of people posting on this board! I absolutely love Shanghai! There is no such thing as a perfect utopia and I consider any nuisances as all part of the experience!

    I wish more expats were as positive about their situation as myself! I really enjoy my life here and have had few problems with the people or the culture.

  41. I’ve been lobbying my company to send me overseas to either East Asia or South-east Asia for the last two years. Part of this lobbying includes drowning my bosses with research about various cities, including Shanghai, Bangkok, Singapore. It’s great that these posts and blogs exist so people can share insights and recommendations, but when people feel the need to post racist or bigoted comments, it makes things very hard for those of us trying to sell opportunities in amazing cities like Shanghai to our bosses, many of whom cannot find these cities on a map.

  42. Hi Jian Shuo,

    Congrats on this very lively blog

    I live at Mumbai, India, and was trying to understand how the two cities, Mumbai and Shanghai are different. Your posts and the comments gave a good idea of what expats think about Shanghai.

    Would be be great to know what locals who have lived in Shaghai consider their top ten likes and top 10 dislikes about the city.

    Your thoughts?

  43. Chinese people, please be more tolerant to backpackers. I was a backpacker between 1965-68 in Asia, Europe and Africa. I was once given a lift in a Mercedes sports car by a former backpacker – I checked recently on the Internet and he became head of a vast Chemical corporation in Germany. The backpackers I befriended in the 1960’s are now professors, lawyers, doctors, politicians, diplomats, military personnel and engineers. Treat backpackers courteously and they will always remember it when they progress to higher calling.

  44. china is full of boring money loving people without soul and without any interest in other people whom they dont know, if chinese or lao wai, doesnt matter.

    china has a great history, a HISTORY OF WAR and TAKE OVER of other countries, naxi kingdom, tibet, taiwan, the list is endless.

    the thing is, the chinese are the perfect people for the government, boring, hard working, no soul, money loving. like machines, not like people. everything gets only done for some profit, not for humanity or care of somebody.

    i lived 10 years in asia: india, indonesia, japan, thailand, nepal, cambodia, laos, china, etc., i went to china, and after 2 weeks i rushed to get a ticket out and left sooner then planned. china is a cheap copy of japan, japan developed and has now a generation, that can think by themselfes and has interest and own mind, but china is just horrible.

  45. Everyone makes mistakes, nobody is perfect. What makes you think that you’re fit to judge others. US made a mistake with Iraq and now many are suffering…Germany killed the Jews and started WW1…and of course China has a long and bloody history of wars and invasion…but I can safely say that most countries have had power struggles that resulted in the suffering of many…whether they are Asian, European or American. Nobody is ‘more at fault’ than anyone else…so what gives you the right to look down or despise each other? Also, not all women from china end up as whores or study mamas, there are plenty who become teachers…teaching Chinese and many more in the science and technology field…so please stop this judgmental rant based on stereotypes. Plus, do you actually think that any women would enjoy prostituting herself? The Chinese women probably used that as a last resort…most of them were conned into thinking that decent jobs were available to them and paid snakeheads to get them into the country…only to find themselves being sold off as prostitutes. Life is hard, don’t make it any harder. Just as the saying goes, walk in others’ shoes before judging them…don’t use your own shallow standards to judge others. Everyone has different backgrounds, cultures and upbringing, just because it goes against your way of thinking doesn’t make it ‘wrong’. Just like what someone already said…we’re living in dirty gray…there’s no way to truly separate right and wrong. That being said…I’m not from China and I’m not an American or European either. I’m Singaporean and I’m Chinese.

    PS: Don’t bother posting insults, I’m not coming back to this thread

  46. I’ve been in Shangers for several years…let me apologize in advance as this will hurt a little, but these are my honest observations as somebody who has lived in quite a few countries around the world:


    * Easy Chinese girls…sure they need a wash down there but I’m not that picky.

    * One of the only places where I can walk down a busy street and honestly say I’m the best looking and most hygienic person there.

    * Xiaolongbao.

    * However disgusting of a pig I act, I can rest assured that there will be a Chinese close at hand to make my piggish behavior seem absolutely genteel in comparison.


    * Shanghai hype, China hype…their economy is based on Soviet-style mass production of shitty goods and slave labor. Name one domestically designed-and-produced product (that isn’t a blatant ripoff of a Japanese or American design) that isn’t a complete piece of shit.

    * Complete lack of innovation, quality control, or copyright laws.

    * Nightlife in Shanghai is sooo lame. Lonely losers picking up Shanghai hoes, shitty outdated club music, and overpriced wannabe “glamor” bars. Fake hiphop heads who’ve never heard of Afrikka Bambatta, A Tribe Called Quest, or The Roots.

    * Live music scene is crap – Filipino bands (not that I have anything against Filipinos!) and a couple jazz cover bands.

    * Horrible fashion sense. The funny thing is Chinese people think that Shanghai is the most fashionable city in China…well not if you include Hong Kong, sorry Shangers. Young guys dressed in fake bathing ape…people are still wearing this shit? Lots of synthetics, fake fur trim, and badly coordinated outfits. Mismatched tracksuit top and bottom worn with black leather shoes…wtf???

    * Chinese food. Chinese people think their food is the best in the world. It isn’t. Pretty much every other country in Asia has had waaay better food than in China. Why do Chinese feel the need to douse everything in a liter of cooking oil and MSG? The culinary skills, by and large, are shit. That’s because the most skilled and knowledgeable Chinese chefs fled during the cultural revolution, and to this day you can get better Chinese food in Hong Kong or San Francisco than you can in the mainland. And Shanghainese food is even worse, as it is oily even for Chinese food, as well as being sweet. Can you say e xing??

    * Shanghainese girls…can you say Fug Lee? Chinese girls are sooo not hot, and that’s fine, we can’t all be Brazilian models can we, but the funniest/saddest part is that Shanghainese girls somehow got it into their silly little heads that they are hot and stylish because they have a fake LV bag and big sunglasses, sorry but you’re still a pasty, flabby, flat-assed, materialistic b*tch. Add high heels for greater comic effect, and watch a Shanghainese girl wobble around like a clown on stilts. (hint, high heels aren’t worn back on the farm, gets stuck in the pigshit).

    * Ugly buildings. Shanghai’s municipal gov’t, in an effort to seem like a real world city and not a provincial backwater, threw up all kinds of crazy “futuristic” buildings with lights all over them. Unfortunately, most of them look like they were designed by a 12 year old hallucinating on mushrooms. Instead of having an innovative, integrated design, they nearly all have some kind of “cap” or “hat” plunked on top. The overall effect is pretty silly. On top of that, the quality of the buildings screams “made in China” in that they tend to look old and dilapidated within 3 years.

    * Shopping sucks. I’m not a rabid shopper, but I do like to be reasonably well-dressed and have some new clothes once in a while. You’d figure a city that was 85% shopping centers would at least offer a lot in this area. Well, sorry, but Shanghai is one of the worst cities in Asia as far as shopping goes. Honestly, save your money and go to Hong Kong or Bangkok. The clothing falls into 2 basic categories here: extremely overpriced 80s designer clothes like Gucci or Burberry, that rich Chinese think is still fashionable, or “domestic” Chinese clothes, that are laughably ugly and poorly made…I wear neither. I just want nice, understated clothes that don’t have sequins or fake fur trim, and that don’t make me look like gay Versace runway trash from 1986. Even my trips to Zara and H&M yielded nothing, as the clothes in the stores here are COMPLETELY different from say, Paris or NY (must be for domestic tastes?) If you’re shopping for electronics, forget Shanghai. I honestly don’t get foreigners who come here to drop $10K on electronics, and end up paying more than they would in the US if they shopped around for a couple days. Shanghai IS NOT the place to buy electronics in China. In fact, the prices here are quite high, even by US standards. If you want electronics, go to Guangzhou or Shenzhen.

    * Lack of any real cultural identity or distinctly “Shanghainese” ethos, other than greed and vulgar materialism. I first moved here in 1999. People at that time were buzzing about a cultural and creative renaissance. Well. it never happened. Where’s the vibrant and original art and cultural scene that a city this dynamic should have?

  47. I’ve lived in the US for more than a decade and am now back in Asia. I will never ever want to step in the US ever again. That and Australia too. Thank God I’m back in Asia now.

  48. After three solid years teaching, living, being ( and wishing at times I werent) in Shanghai, here is my take on the list.

    Things I love about Shanghai

    1. The capacity to be myself, a good teacher, a lover of language and a person who wants to teach English to people who want to learn it. Shanghai is a great place to be an English teacher, and the students here are lovely, interesting, hardworking, smart, friendly, gracious and sincerely nice people, one of the reasons I love China is for this alone.

    2. It is an interesting place. It is always vibrant and exciting, there is romance, color, music, fashion and art to be found here. Shanghai is a place of culture. (though not history)

    3. It is a place where people strive to become something, I am from western Australia, Perth. And I grew tired of being around people there who had no amibition. Perhaps this is not unique to Shanghai, but I appreciate that Chinese are hard working, ambitious, goal oriented, are competitive and driven. I also want to be more when I see those around me working harder than myself.

    4. Lets face it- Shanghai is a sexy place. HongKong maybe moreso, but Shanghai has good looking people, high fashion, and yes sure, materialism reigns here. I want to say that In three years I never once visited a bar or nightclub, but as a man, I do appreciate nice looking women, who dresss well, look good and are aware of their attractiveness without being preoccupied with wanting to look sexy. Shanghai is not only a place of these things, but it is stylising itself into a place with a particular type of woman nowadays.

    5. As far as cities in China go, and perhaps with the exception of Hangzhou and certain other place, Shanghai is clean. Not everywhere, but someplaces. And the air is not bad either.

    Things I hate about Shanghai.

    1. Social Ignorance. This is something I could very easily make into a list numbering more than 100. for example, people clipping their fingernails in restaurants. People driving motorcycles on the footpath and expecting all others to move (including couples pushing their babies in prams). People who smoke EVERYWHERE, and I do mean everywhere, including hospitals, taxi drivers who smoke, people who light up in the subway station the moment they get off the train! Hurry up and die of cancer so we can enjoy a life without your smoke please.

    2. Those who push, shove, barge, cut in, and generally just believe that they have the right to get in your way, or get in front of you anywhere and anytime. These are the people who don’t care about others. So to the man who put both his hands on me to push me aside, when he got on the train, and whom I put one hand on to PUSH HIM BACK- you deserved it!

    3. Crowded public places. This is not so bad. I appreciate the reasons, the why’s and wherefore’s. I have been to HongKong and other places, and I know Shanghai is not as bad.

    4. Hawkers, Vendors, Beggers, Grifters, Pickpockets, Cheaters, and Colorwolves. Enough said!

    5. I hate that I love this city so much, but I can never feel that the people in this city appreciate what they have. People here are perpetually unhappy and unappreciative. Most have incredibly intollerant views. Most blame people from other provinces for the trouble in their city, most blame people from other cities, stating that no Shanghainiese would ever spit or litter- Which is untrue. I usually feel that Shanghai people are just rude, bitter, selfish and ignorant. I usually feel sick of the constant obnoxious behavior I see everywhere I go. And despite the fact that I love Chinese people, I love China so much, And I will never forget my time here- It is Shanghai people who have made me sick to my stomach, and tired of being here.

  49. I am totally with you gweilo….

    and to Griffin, you description of shanghai in the dislike part is grossing me out…. its true, the brutal but naked truth regarding not just shanghai but whole of china……..

  50. I could not agree more with Gwelio….

    Rather than simply paraphrasing Gwilio’s thoughts which encapsulate my feelings towards this fine city very accurately I thought I would add the following;

    I guess as a single guy the hardest thing to comprehend is the women, having lived in Singapore for 6 years before moving here I was under the impression that I found Asian women attractive however Shanghai would have to be the easiest place for me to live in Asia and stay faithful to a girlfriend or wife simply by way of the absence of any temptation at all.

    It is often said that there are only three types of expats… missionaries, mercenaries and misfits. I fall into the second category and will leave when my work here is done. I have compiled my top 10 love and hate about Shanghai as follows;


    1 The departure hall at the airport (always gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling)

    2 My apartment in Shimaou overlooking the Bund

    3 The fact that most days I dont have to leave the complex or mix with any locals at all

    4 The Mao watches with the waving hands (classy)

    5 McDonalds is cheaper here (a Big Mac is less that $ 2.00 so the more I eat the more I save)

    6 The fact that my circa 1986 suits are considered high fashion when worn with reeboks

    7 I dont trust air I cannot see

    8 The abundence of international hotels… being in the lobby of any of them makes you feel like you could be anywhere (until the waitress arrives)

    9 The fact I wont be here for ever

    10 The ornate cigarette packets, though I dont smoke I still get a kick out of a pack of smokes called “double happiness”

    The Hate list…

    1 The food, yes all of it… they even managed to fuck up Pizza Hut

    2 The constant hocking sound when one is walking down the street followed by a gob on the pavement that a child could slip on

    3 The men leaving labels on the sleeves of their unbelievably shit suits

    4 The fact that I cannot say “fuck off” in chinese

    5 The mainland accent… Where does the RRRR come from, was China ever colonsied by pirates ?

    6 The volume of mobile phone conversations in public places

    7 Millions of inept useless staff in every restaruant, supermarket and mall in the city

    8 The colour prejadice and white skin is beautiful mentality resulting in heavily made up, aneamic cheap looking women.

    9 The decor of “high end” condo complexes intended to look like rennaisance inspired architecture but instead looks more like a cheap and even tackier version of Las Vegas

    10 The fact that I could dedicate 10 more points to the women alone.

  51. @hardlinejuan – it sounds very much like your ‘hates’ are actually your problems and perceptions, not those of the beautiful city or the people…

    On your opening comments – attractive Asian women (in Singapore) – compared to Shanghai?? You MUST be joking right????????

    If you can’t say ‘f**k off’, then you obviously havn’t lived in Shanghai long enough yet.

    Anyway – if you hate it so much, why don’t you just ‘f**k off’ home instead of complaining?

  52. @hardlinejuan :

    heh heh…missionaries, mercenaries and misfits…I think you forgot to add the arseholes & dickheads which obviously is the group you belong in.

  53. AussiePB

    Our views on China are clearly very different, and I thank Wangjiangshuo for providing the forum to express the same…

    Believe me I will f**k off home the minute I am done here, as I said in my first entry I am here for the money… nothing else.

    In some ways, from your perspective I am the dream ex pat living in Shanghai since we will never meet, I wont be here long term, and believe me I wont touch your women.

  54. @AussiePB, regarding what you wrote:

    “On your opening comments – attractive Asian women (in Singapore) – compared to Shanghai?? You MUST be joking right????????”

    Although I’m not attractive attractive, I feel a responsibility to say something here. Aren’t you currently working in Singapore? When you say “Asian women (in Singapore)”, I assume you’re referring to mostly Singaporean women. Is there a need to put Singaporean women down in order to say that Shanghai women are attractive? You MUST be joking right???????????

    If not, maybe you should apply the advice you gave hardlinejuan onto yourself instead. Go back to your own country, instead of working here and at the same time, putting down the very people who contributed to the building up of this country.

    Xie xie!

  55. @Ling – You have chosen to try to read implications (that don’t exist) into what I wrote – I did not put anyone down. For you to infer I meant anything other than what I have said is showing your defensiveness… why?

    And further to tell me to go home – what for?? I love this country and I love the people – I have always emphasised this point.

    Next time, before you jump to incorrect and inappropriate conclusions, you should look hard at yourself and the reasons why you wish to insult people that contribute to your (our) country, when you have clearly misinterpreted my words. Thank God the rest of this beautiful country are not as shallow as you, and respect me for my value-added contributions to my society.

    At least you have used the word ‘assuming’ – ass-u-me… please keep your degrading comments to yourself. I’ve not put anyone down (except hardlinejuan for the insults he posed to Shanghai and its people) – your wish here is to put me down – a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black, don’t you think!!

    A group of my Singaporean friends (male and female, attractive and unattractive alike) are here now at my home, and I have showed them your post… they are disgusted for your words and apologising on your behalf… I’ve told them not to, I know that the majority of SGpeans are not as shallow and insulting as you. I think an apology directly from you for your incorrect assumptions, inapproriate inferences and narrow-mindedness would suffice!!

    ANGRY NOW!!!!! You are so wrong in every statement you have made in your post (on so many levels)!!!

  56. @Ling – your comments had so inflamed me, that I have relooked at my post to hardlinejuan. I am in no way apologising for my post, but I can now see where you have incorrectly interpreted my words… I was sticking up for the honour of ALL women… hardlinejuan made a comparison between the women of two locations, which is degrading and offensive… I reiterated his words and told him ‘he must be joking’… you interpreted this to mean that I was suggesting that Singaporean women were unattractive – this is a totally incorrect assumption, and anyone that has read any of my posts or comments in the past would know that I would never suggest something so downgrading or in fact, bordering racist.

    Should you have questioned my comment and sought clarification of the intent of my words, as opposed to ‘jumping down my throat’, I probably would have apologised for not being clear enough in my comment.

    However, given you ridiculous suggestion that I should leave my home (Singapore) to go back to my country of heritage, I am so offended that I will be apologising to you for nothing at all – you don’t deserve it.

    Finally, just because your ancestors (or past generations at least) played a part in building up Singapore to where it is today, does not in anyway suggest or mean that you contribute anything more or less than me in today’s SG multicultural society – perhaps we are just seeing the true colours of Ling in terms of her attitude toward westerners working and living in Singapore. Hmmm????

    This is my home too – not just yours!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Tch tch…

  57. @AussiePB, wow, you’re actually angrier than I am. If I had misunderstood your reply to hardlinejuan, I apologise for it. Also, I thought you were a “foreign talent” who’s working in Singapore temporarily. I had no idea you had already made this place your home. So I guess I’m sorry for asking you to go home when you’re already home! Okay, “incorrect assumptions”… check. “Inappropriate inferences”… probably check. Hmm, let’s see what else, “narrow-mindedness”. Aha! Although I don’t agree with hardlinejuan, he probably also thinks that you’re narrow-minded in criticising him for criticising the women he’s seen in Shanghai. (Oops, more fuel for online flaming?)

    As for my attitude towards Westerners working and living in Singapore, I don’t like to generalise. It all depends on how they behave, or how I perceive they behave. I guess I’ve wronged someone who’s been really nice to people whether in Singapore or out?

    Honestly, I almost forgot about this thing, having gone for a nice and quiet dinner on a Friday night. I’m sorry that my post has angered you so. Oh, and thank you so much for sticking up for the honour of ALL women.

  58. @AussiePB, oops, I just realised you’ve called me “shallow” and “insulting”. Perhaps it’s your turn to apologise now?

    Oh, and speaking of contribution… how about volunteering to serve two years of National Service in our army? That’s what every Singapore-born man has to go through if they want to stay in this country. Volunteering to serve in NS would be a great way to show your patriotism toward this country you now call home…

  59. Whoa – read what u said – u were shallow and insulting… you still don’t acknowledge that perhaps you jumped to an early conclusion before insulting me…

    As for NS – I totally disagree that every male in SG is mandated for NS… but that is a totally different debate, and many SG citizens also disagree with it and would not undertake military training if it was not mandatory – you should know this. On this, you may have your opinion, but it has nothing to do with my contribution to my new country. Nor does it have anything to do with patriotism – as a PR, my son is liable for NS whether I like it or not… hopefully by the time he’s old enough the laws may have changed. Historically, when SG has been at war, many other countries have assisted in fighting off the enemy (including my very own Grandfather who was captured by the Japanese in SG and made work on the railway in Burma)… this is what compassion and cooperation is all about….

    Oh by the way – when did you complete your NS? You do know that it is compulsory for girls in many countries too… once again, nothing to do with their love for their country – but since you are so passionate about it – I’m sure you have done your bit…

    This is getting nowhere – I in no way bad-mouthed SG people or the country – you have started all this from nothing… give it up and try and pick a fight with someone who doesn’t love Singapore… THIS IS MY HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whether you like it or not!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Get over it that OUR government want westerners to immigrate here – we have a problem with reverse population growth and the talent loss of emigrating locals… you also know this!!

  60. @AussiePB, okay, I concede defeat. You win. You’re the greatest. Have a nice weekend.

  61. Hope you guys don’t mind me jumping in.

    Why does the SGP government only want westerners (whatever that means…does it include Africa and South America?) to emigrate to SGP? Is it harder for, say, Chinese, Arabian or Indian talent to emigrate to SGP from a legal/regulatory POV?

  62. Hi – no, the SG government will take talent from anywhere as long as they fit certain criteria – education level, no criminal record, etc…

  63. @AussiePB: Cool down my friend, seen your blog, don’t think Ling would question your sincerity if she had seen it. But hey, don’t you want to return to the big island in the future ? Singapore might be fine for now, but isn’t it a “bloody hell” of a place compared to Australia ? Your tourism board said it, not me. ha ha ! Must admit though, “attractive Asian women (in Singapore) – compared to Shanghai?? You MUST be joking right????????” kinda took me by surprise. Thankfully I figured you can’t be that wacky. Looking at your response to Ling… thank god I kept mum on this.

  64. I agree with Ling’s original and following comments to and about you, Aussie, and Aussie, you are outrageously defensive of someone who just simply misconstrued your original words. If you are an Aussie, then you give a bad name to us. Because we can get over ourselves and get over the attacks of others readily and rapidly, while you however chose to just grow ever more defensive and hide behind eloquence in order to try to make yourself feel correct.

    You yourself generalized ALL Shanghai woman, and trust me, brother, you have not met ALL Shanghai women. You probably would not even garner the attention of even the most golddigging and superficially ambitious “BabyFace” frequenting young Shanghai lass with your aggressive and overtly defensive behavior, so I tend to think you simply had no luck “hooking up” as perhaps you do or did in S’pore so now hold resentment to Shanghai girls, who I firmly admit are not the easiest to please.

    Ling is right about you, is my bottom line, and she (or he) need apologize to no-one. You are extremely unpleasant here, and have turned this forum into an argument. Go back to youtube and attack people there, Aussie hater.

  65. @Griffin – what’s up your ass? – we all have made our peace here, so why are you trying to inflame it all again… Ling and I are both long-term contibuters to Jian Shuo’s blog and had a quick misunderstanding… FYI – I’m happily married to my wife from Shanghai and have a beautiful baby boy… you are the one being unpleasant now, and for absolutely no reason. You don’t know me, nor me you… I have no understanding about your youtubue comment – strange. Finally, I give aussies a bad name? – lucky you can hide behind a post on the internet, you gutless little man. Nothing more to say. Take care.

  66. aussiepb, ignore him he baiting u. and i thinks he confusing others comments from what he said. here we know u a long time. u always defend every peoples rights no matter race or culture. (soetime very passionate especially china singapore and australia people). for australia u are true ambassador for your country to all asia. and my friends and i still read your blog every day. your wife and baby is so cute.

  67. forget. and aussiepb did u know i saw u on malaysia news last week day after u spoke for ministry of finance conference. now u famous. i was happy to meet u. please remember send me a email when u back from usa and arrange bangkok interview.

  68. Hi Jen. Thanks for the comments. I’ve fogotten about the other ‘stirrer’ now – I think I was more suffering from a bad day than too worried about what he said. We have a saying in Australia – “it’s like water off a duck’s back”.

    It was really great to meet you and the team last week also, and I did hear that I made the news. :D One of my colleagues has video-taped it for me – I’m really interested to see how I come across with my voice over-dubbed with Malay. I should be in Thailand around end of September. Sammi and Jaime will visit our families in Shanghai for a few weeks while I’m in Chicago (after Jaime’s 1st birthday on 27th August – their first time flying alone without me). I’ll make a quick stop in HK, then will pick them back up again from SH – unfortunately I won’t get to stay more than a couple of nights this time. Oh well, CNY will be back again before I know it and I’ll take the regular 3-weeks vacation then (and will surely gain the 10kg back that I’ve spent all year losing).

    Just sent you an email with some suggested date/s for TH.

  69. Aussie…

    I did get the names totally mixed up.

    Sorry about that.

    I should have gone back and looked at the names again, cos I got seriously muddled-up, sorry mate.

  70. hi

    “On your opening comments – attractive Asian women (in Singapore) – compared to Shanghai?? You MUST be joking right????????

    It sounds like mockery at all women in Singapore.

    Being a Singaporean women, I do not agree with Aussie because I know there are lots of attractive women in Singapore. Maybe he hasn’t had the chance to meet one yet.

    Ling do not get worked up because what we all know what he said is not true. :-) No point starting a online war here.

  71. Not sure what happened to the last post I made, but i came back to apologize. I confused the names in the first place, and It was just a stupid mix-up. sorry for that, Aussie, my mistake.

  72. Hi @Griffin – mate, apology totally accepted – consider it forgotten, my friend. Please also accept mine. :D

  73. Hi autumn – per all the above comments – this was not the intention of my words. I know now that I could have been wiser with the way I structured my sentence. Please forgive and forget. :p

  74. “On your opening comments – attractive Asian women (in Singapore) – compared to Shanghai?? You MUST be joking right???????? – It sounds like mockery at all women in Singapore”

    Hey Autumn,

    is it not a “sound like mockery” – IT IS A MOCKERY IF NOT DISCRIMINATION. Aussie PB is totally hypocrite about being anti-racist if you look at his other posts. If you have the time, scroll through his past comments and you can see very clearly that he basically discriminates or at least is negative about Singapore (except the money) and is favorably biased towards China/ Shanghai women for that matter.

    Well, he married a China women so it is not hard to see why/ how he feels that way. Cool it…

  75. @AussiePB. Is the PB for “Premenstrual Bitch?”

    “it sounds very much like your ‘hates’ are actually your problems and perceptions, not those of the beautiful city or the people…”

    Beautiful city and people? Eh, no. All his points are completely valid, as anyone who isn’t a line-towing sino asslicker will attest to. I’ve been many places in the world, seen things strange, wonderful, awful too… Shanghai is just another soulless Chinese business city. With shit weather and shit food to top it off.

    The people… there’s a reason why Shanghainese are universally despised within China. It’s because they’re as a general rule selfish, obnoxious, arrogant, mendacious and crude. If you think Shanghainese people are beautiful I suggest you get out more or visit an optometrist. Physical and hygienic issues aside, ever been to a place where people actually smile and display an iota of human compassion and warmth? Ever been to Africa? Thailand? Nepal? Sri Lanka?

    “Anyway – if you hate it so much, why don’t you just ‘f**k off’ home instead of complaining?”

    Actually, why don’t you f**k off? The post is titled 10 Things You Love/Hate about Shanghai. So, we’re writing about things we love and hate about Shanghai. Is the concept too difficult for you to grasp? Also, some of us are posted here for work or business, not because of our undying love for all things Shanghainese. There’s enough censorship and propoganda in daily life here without having to deal with the same online from some puckered dill-hole who got suckered into marrying a gold digger.

  76. @Gweilo – wow, you are so articulate. *that’s sarcasm* – I have been to all the countries you list, and suspect I am much more widely travelled than you (over 100 business trips to all parts of the globe annually) – Shanghai still ranks number one in my mind. The topic is “10 thinigs you love/hate about shanghai” – agree, not “10 most racist and shallow things I can think of to insult people in the city where I live” – to then go ahead and insult my wife – perhaps you can’t get a woman (or maybe you don’t want one – your gay lover might suffice your needs). Wanker.

  77. Top Ten Things I love bout shanghai

    1) Fast pace life style

    2) Food,

    3) Chinese Women

    4) Shanghainese culture

    5) Communism

    6) Shanghai Media Group

    6) Ai Yi’s

    7) Muse one, two and three.

    8) Opium

    9) KTV’s

    10) Cops

    Top ten things i hate about Shanghai

    1) Restaurants, clubs, golf courses only catered to Japs.

    2) Not enough B-Ball courts

    3) Fake Booze

    4) Mad Max Driving style

    5) Euro-trash

    6) CCTV 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10

    7) Over rated Expensive restaurants, no more f-ing tapas PLEASE!!!

    8) White people yelling at locals

    9) Visa Office

    10) Censorship

  78. I hate shanghai people …you know that they are not friendly like the student in my school it was local school. they like smoking! so bad for their health! I hate it! shanghai people so bad…the shanghai food was also oily!!!!!!

  79. i dont understand joey..he speas so ill of foreigners but yet he is speaking our language..btw joey..

    asians in africa,america,uk and even in asia are being treated like “ayi’s” and janitors..why?

    because they have no respect for others and they smell like the metro in paris..believe it or not joey..foreigners are the only reason asia is the way it is,,without us you’ll just be another low class,bottom of the cheer cup,race.

    i do agree with one thing,,some foreigners in china act like they own the world but thats just it,,all countries in culture have their own problem

    1.south africa = crime rate is high but at least they admit it-asia will cover theirs with an excuse

    2.usa =financial crisis / crime ect but everybody own earth wanna live the american dream

    3.uk-ind of boring but at least people have a sense of humor,,chinese..my god..id rather not say

    my point being–when i came to china everything about the place was disgusting..some eat unborn kids(eww) they spit..and you know why chinese like dogs so much,,thats because they also act like animal

    they way they wal on the street is the wat the drive a car,the way the drive a car is the way the swim in a public pool they way the swim is the way mae love..

    im not saying we foreigners are kings but before you point a finger be sure of ur people are good…you know what they say.dont spit in the wind cause it may blow back in your face

  80. oh ..once i went to Gucci to buy my wife a b,day present..i paid 35000 yuan for a bag and the bag ended up being fae

    point being..eveything in asia is fake ,,even alcohol,,

    how they hell…? never mind

  81. Aussie PB you are a sentimental fool with no regard for individual personality differences for shanghai women. How is it then that you are married to one of them? You generalise that all Shanghai women are prostitute trash when you fail to appreciate that they may have come from poor backgrounds and may have no choice in the matter. You get way too defensive in your online battle with Ling indicating some hidden feeling of bias concerning Shanghai women. Also why bring down Shanghai women for being materialistic when you yourself imply that you are only in Shanghai for the money and job opportunity. All in all Shanghai people are the way they are and we cannot change them, so why complain about them. If we dont like the way they live or do buissiness then dont go there or dont live there.

    Things I love about Shanghai:

    job opportunity

    appartment view

    work enviroment/ work collegues

    Things I dont like about Shanghai:

    OVERALL attitude of locals



  82. People in Shanghai are RUDE!!!!! They love to stare, push, touch you, yell, and exhibit all sorts of UNCIVILIZED behavior. and the restrooms are distgusting. they smoke everywhere including places with the no smoking sign. They spit all over the place (gross). the weather is crap, cloudy most of the time, probably partly due to polution (who knows). You know there is a study that found people who live in places with gloomy weather (or something like that)are more likely to be depressed. and one more thing, i don’t like shopping in places where you have to bargain. Those salespeople are so dishonest and unpleasant to deal with!

  83. shanghai needs a facelift

    it should welcome outside infulence and blend ideas.

    open heart and better manners.

  84. I have travelled to 20 countries or more in the world and in my view :

    1) USA is getting old and boring

    2) Europe…pretty but drab

    3) Africa ….not safe

    4) Australia ….. people falling on top of each other in the beach at Sydney…oh what a suntan

    5) Shanghai…the best of all….lively, cheap, high class infrastructure, pretty girls, friendly people. And yes, if paid the right price they can make better quality stuff than lazy Americans or agriculturist and athletic but less knowledgeable Australians can. I love Chinese food, people, the metro. The only and major problem is the language. And sadly, I have now relocated back to my own country

  85. I like chinese food and chinese home furnishing, handmade items.

    If you like chinese wooden style furniture and antiques furniture. Please share with me. We have many stock pieces items for sales.

    My email is info@easterncurio.com

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