"Love China" Blooms on MSN Messenger

This morning, I opened my MSN Messenger, and saw a list like this:

image

image

Due to limitation of screen copy, this is not a complete list yet. The heart and China was inputted this way:

(L) China

I just want to share with my friends on this blog about the reality, or to be more exact, about the reaction/perception of what happened in London and Paris. People may evaluate about the result of the protest. It is the time to find a way to communicate a message that is acceptable by the Chinese people. I heard a lot of criticism about the perception, but I only see "different", not right or wrong.

We have had great discussions about this issue in the last few blog entries. I am going to provide more report on what is happening in China. Since this blog is in English, its propose is mainly to help people outside China understand the feeling of people in China, and understand China as a whole better. Although it also serves as an important window for people in China to understand what is in the mind of people outside.

P.S. The last time I saw this was during the flower bloom in 2004.

139 Comments

  1. My wife saw that as well when she signed on MSN today (so we did the same).

  2. One People, One voice.

    I am sorry, this really fits the definition of “brainwashed”.

    And since I am a designer, I can’t help it… to offer some comments on the visual. One word: boring.

    To interpret it from communication design perspective, this says: PEOPLE are NOT thinking.

    It also creates the same effect in my mind as if you show me pictures of China in the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s… people wore same colors in same styles spoke same words.

    There are more colors, somewhat cute, and technically up-to-date… yet it depresses my eyes and my imagination.

  3. I find that gesture as meaningless as those yellow “Support the Troops” bumper stickers in America. Patriotism comes from within, not from a silly MSN graphic. This is just SAD.

  4. CommunistKidsRule

    April 16, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    So you’re saying Lance Armstrong’s been brainwashing you Americans with his little Live Strong rubber band?

    Wat’s wrong with a little national pride? Isn’t this what Americans did after 911? Unite?

    This isn’t about design, it’s about unity, and with such a huge reaction, I believe people ARE thinking

    Red has always represented China, and if it depresses your eye and your imagination, well, do we really care what you think?

  5. I really think this action is very silly and meaningless! We need to see this world objectively. So I won’t do this childish thing!

  6. patriotism reminds me of religous fundamentalism. i personally feel that it belongs in another century, but i’ve not always been in touch with mainstream thought.

  7. After 2 days 9/11 happened, I saw the word “United” everywhere in the street of U.S. Who’s brain washed? Go and count the number of national flags in the streets of both U.S. and China and make a comparison. Who’s brain washed? You call this brain washed? You call us brain washed when we found out common interest? You call the “outstanding” opinions “freedom”? Who’s brain washed? Who?

  8. What is most depressing is that Western politicians are turning the purely objective Olympics – a sporting event – into a political circus. Some of the politicians’ comments are ridiculous at best. Chinese people are very good at “just suffer and take it”. At some point in time, we need to “stand and be counted”. Nobody talks about patriotism being ridiculous in the Western world – why ridicule the Chinese? (L) China dudes and dudettes!

  9. GN.WHY YOU always keep your pitiful superiority,we are talking about event,you talking about design,what wrong with you . with your lousy words here i even can imagine how selfish . pathetic. arrogant you are.

    why not you try to think that we discuss those things to you , i mean we are the people hurt, not you.

    if somepeople like you want talk, take off your arrogance first.or you are not qualified.

  10. To 小虎: American AND Chinese are way too much Nationalist…. see the result… a war in Iraq for USA…. hope not the same for China.

  11. Hate China

    Who started this stupid act?!

  12. To: ppl like me who feel that this act is not silly, let’s do it.

  13. Hi Wang Jianshuo,

    I just started to visit your blog from yesterday. Nice blog indeed. Thanks for this blog, which allows me to share with rest of the people, no matter they are native Chinese, or from western world, as how we as ordinary Chinese people perceive and feel during recent unpleasant days.

    To begin with, I will answer the question that I was frequently asked recently. Why the Chinese seemed to be more agitated toward French ?

    Well , I guess this is mainly because most Chinese are pro-France before. We learnt about French revolution in high school. we read French novels and have our favorite French authors. When we started to earn money, we bought cosmetics and accessories made in France, though a LV bag might cost someone 2 month’s salary. What Chinese people ” perceived ” during past years was that France is more friendly than U.S. or U.K . French people is more friendly toward Chinese people than their American or British counterparts.

    Then everything was changed after 7th., April. We saw 3 facts.

    1) The disable female fence-player, jin Jing, was attacked in her wheelchair, without shelter or protection from the local security. This is even unacceptable in an uncivilized world.

    2) The city mayor of Paris hung the huge banner on the building, advocating their so-called Human Right, as a “welcome gift ” to the torch leg in Paris. I am not making any comments on HR here. Sports and Human Rights should be separate issues. By mixing them together at that particular moment, the politicians in Paris did a very wrong thing in the wong time.

    3) The French people, by saying “French people” here, I mean French people in a big proportion , not just ” only a few ” as CCTV reported. the men and the women, the elderly and the youth, were in the protesting group boycotting Bei Jing Olympics game. In one of the video on internet, I heard a French elder shouted at an overseas Chinese student, ” get out of France ! Go back to China !” He was not aiming at the Chinese Government, he was against an ordinary Chinese student, and thereby hurt all the Chinese people behind him.

    After 7th. April, every Chinese, especially those post-80’s, or post-90’s young generation , began to see France in a totally new perspective. As for those young overseas student who had witnessed all the facts, what new perception will they gain after the protest ? What profound changes will they bring to the future Sino-France relationship ? Most of the Chinese student who went abroad for education are more promising and talented than their peers , and they will be bound to play an important role in future international business.

    Back to the “boycott French products ” issue. Personally I have already stopped using French cosmetics , and I know all the Chinese ladies in my company are doing the same. Outside the company people are demanding bigger boycotting, including stop shopping in Carrefour. Thanks to the “unfree press” in China, most ordinary people could not get full converge on the protest and the hostility those westerners presented to China , but they already learned some truth from internet. I know the boycott thing might be childish and immature, and it does no good to both sides in the long run. But other than that, we have no better way to express our outrage and disgust.

    Some major western media and quite a few of westerners made, and they’re still making, big mistakes from the very beginning.

    1) They mix Olympics with politics.

    2) They mix Chinese people with Chinese government.

    3) They mix themselves with God by fancying they were saving 1.3 billion of Chinese people from an abyss of extreme misery.

    Thanks for the mercy , but leave the Chinese business to the Chinese !

  14. TO:baiduuu

    Check your facts. How many countries send the troop to iraq? not only the f* USA.

  15. It is easy to jump onto the patriotic bandwagon by a few key strokes. But it takes much more to get self-reckoning.

  16. @ whatever that was related to my previous comments.

    If my comments hurt you, make sure you don’t blame Americans or anybody else. I am Chinese from mainland China. If you want to call me names which supposedly are more “suitable” for an Chinese who disagrees with you… I can’t stop you. Thank goodness, I have thick skin.

    I saw people’s anger I heard plenty… “they hurt our feelings”. I understand where it all come from. I just don’t see it the same way. You don’t have to listen to me, or care about what I think. But when I have something to say on this “public” platform, I say it the way I do.

    I am a designer, have no plan to change that, sometimes I learn and understand things visually. You put out a “show”, I observed. That’s it.

    Plus, Lance Armstrong is about individual sprite… and more. He is not about American government. Not everybody (not even close) wears yellow bands. And there is nothing wrong with those who don’t have one. If it comes to the point that people believe only the ones who wear the yellow band are life-loving people, then YES, I’d call that “brainwashed” too.

  17. LOVE CHINA SUPPORT OLYMPIC

  18. LOVE CHINA SUPPORT OLYMPIC

  19. I DON’T KNOW MORE ABOUT ON THE WEST WORLD.

    BUT I KNOW THAT SOMETHING HAPPEN UNFAIR TO CHINA.

    2008 OLYMPIC TO HOLD AT CHINA, IT’S NOT ONLY CHINESS WORK,BUT ALSO IS ALL OVER THE WORLD.

    SO,THERE ARE WORDS: WHAT HAPPEN TO HUMAN?

    LOVE CHINA SUPPORT OLYMPIC

  20. Comparing 9/11 to China feeling slighted in some international media is just ignorant on far too many levels.

    I think the only problem with this (L)China campaign is that the vast majority of people who are going to see this to the magnitude shown in jianshuo’s screenshots are Chinese Nationals. I think what is intended is to show the world that China stands together, blah blah blah, but this will not do anything to further that cause.. back to the drawing board I guess.

  21. Copied from another blog…

    “On the other side, I’ve been considering a boycott of Chinese products, recently. Not because of the human rights situation or because of Tibet or because of any political reason, but a friend of mine has been attacked by a few drunkards in a bar in Shanghai. Those drunkards weren’t Chinese, they obviously were foreign tourists, actually the Chinese owner and the Chinese staff of the bar did their best to protect my friend and he managed to get out of there with only a scratch and a few bruises, but still I think that bar should be boycotted from now on, since they allowed the whole incident to happen in the first place. Actually, since it happened on Chinese soil, I think all Chinese products should be boycotted.”

    (L)China+(L)Tibet ;-)

  22. To GN:

    seriously, stop emphasizing that you are a designer, who give a tiny rat’s ass?

    and to be fair, no one cares whether you are bored or not…

    …if everyone doing the same thing is b/c everyone is brainwashed, then to show how ‘un-brainwashed’ and creative you are, you can stop eating or drinking…

    …it’s really not about patriotism…it’s only showing the world what we feel… doesn’t matter whether they care or not…it’s an emotional outlet

  23. I seriously suggest you stop writing in english before you master how to do that, it’s really a pain to read your “chinese-english” post.

  24. GN, we are showing our feelings, none about brainwashed. Meanwhile, who cares about you are a designer, we don’t care about it even you are the Prisident of US.

  25. Agreed with those who say that comparing heightened American patriotism post-9/11 to the aftermath of the Jin Jing attack are defining atrocity down. A better comparison would be the idea among America’s political class that you need to wear an American flag pin to show you are a “patriot.”

    Now if only someone would start a (L)Carrefour campaign in response…

  26. wow, lot of silly people here

  27. @GN

    you are a great designer ……………………………………of zhuangbility.

  28. to betadj

    maybe you can write some chinese that is not english-chinese? oh i see, you can’t even write a single word in chinese

    btw, so many ppl from the states are just unbearably ignorant

  29. This is just to sad. People act without thinking. What happened in Germany in the 1930’s??? Answer: More or less the same – people acting without thinking about the reason behind it…

    Come on be more creative than just add a (L)Heart. Join amnesty international and show that you actually care about your fellow Chinese people than a stupid Olympic game. What’s going to glue the Chinese mob together after August 2008? The Shanghai Expo with the jumping condom as a mascot (good mascot for population control though…)

  30. To GN,

    You don’t have to tell everybody that you have “thick skin “, apparently all the people on this blog can see that.

    And I believe you are the only one who hasn’t been ” brainwashed ” here , because so far as I am concerned, you don’t even got any brain for anyone to “wash” .

    To Betadj,

    I don’t think just because of language barrier, people should be banned from free talking here. Btw, as we Chinese are creative people , we don’t call it “Chinese-english”, we call it ” Chinglish”, which generates more fun.

  31. Hi guys, I have to say, please keep discussing and stop personal attack here.

    The rule for this blog is, we welcome the strongest attack to an opinion, but we cannot tolerate even the slightest attack to a person, because this lead to no where, and we don’t need to waste energy on it.

    Some examples: “This is the worst idea I heard of, because…” I am pretty fine with it, and it is attacking the idea. “You are the worst person I have ever met” is not OK on this blog, since it is attacking to a person. This is the rule.

    I do appreciate people who shared so much about what they think, and helped each other (inside or outside China) to understand important international stuff around us. It is a miracle that it happened even without a user registration system on this blog in the last 5 years.

    During the recent unpleasant days, there are too much conflicts and angry in the Internet space, and I am so impressed by people (both sides of the protester camps) to really TALK here. It’s not easy to archive, and we should be happy that we finally did it. So keep the conversation going.

    To be specific, I saw some comments regarding GN’s comment. I don’t agree with what GN said, but I do want to defense his right to express himself on this blog. For my friend who are new to this blog, history like this on this blog may help:

    http://home.wangjianshuo.com/archives/20070923_dont_leave_aussiepb.htm

    Finally, just a reminder, I reserve the right to stop flaming discussion thread, although in the past 2000 discussion threads, in the last 5 years, I never exercised this right yet.

    Happy debating!

  32. Agree a lot with summer_go, people need be more objective, there is no right or wrong, but the truth and objective. The fact is that Tibet Riot hurt a lot of innocent people, children, students, the olds..which is unforgivable to anyone with moral sense. The fact is that Olympics Game is the festival of the world but not only China, which is what we called one world one dream. Every 4 years for once, how many 4-years does one have in the whole life? I ABSOLUTELY support Olympics and China. Pls Pls don’t mix Olympics with politics. Those three facts that the French did to China really hurt the Chinese, especially the last one which hurt my heart most, because they are ordinary people.. The fact is that most Chinese people are so kind, nice, friendly and hospitable, I believe that so do most of the ordinary French and American people, here I say people but not gov. Why we don’t just let those gov to do their business and we ordinary people keep peace and friendship? Why we can not see the world from the perspective of earth, global harmony? Personally, I don’t think boycotting Carrefour is reasonable, I think business between China and france is mutual benefits and will hurt both if boycotting..but “Love China” on MSN is so cool, anyway it’s kind of spirit communication and kind of unity..it’s the way to express the spirit so peaceful and sweet~

  33. TO GN:

    I’m sad to hear you call yourself Chinese. Maybe you have Chinese parents and Chinese face, but I don’t think you have a Chinese heart and you don’t deserve the name CHINESE.

    Wherever you are, whoever you are, if you don’t have the ABILITY love his motherland, you won’t be respected ANYWHERE!

  34. Think about the CAUSES behind the protests, but not only looking at the protests themselves

    Love China does not mean that different voices shall not be heard, everyone shall enjoy his/her freedom of expression

    If you love China, then try to be more objective, let people see and say both the good side and the bad side of it

    AND TO CHANGE IT BETTER!

  35. 爱国不是盲目的。

    April 17, 2008 at 1:51 am

    betadj:

    我现在说中文,我不想骂你脏话,但至少你很自以为是,你听懂了么?

  36. To nobody,

    Did you see how the Western free media covered the Tibet riot and torch in the past few weeks? Trust me, if you had lived in the West and saw that shit everyday, you would be at least as angry as I am.

    I agree that everyone should have the freedom to express themselves. But that doesn’t mean they can just lie lie lie.

    Being objective is something the West should really learn this time, seriously.

    I wasn’t so sure whether it’s agood idea to boycott the French. But now, I totally support it!

    Chinese need to be heard too.

  37. To nobody, again,

    I am sorry. I was so angry with some of the comments above that I totally misunderstood your comment.

    I take everything back if you are offended by me. Sorry!!

  38. I am sick of hearing CCTV saying the same thing over and over again… the Olympic torch belongs to the world… do they understand that only people in China think so?

    Do you hear people in USA, France, UK, Japan, Germany etc saying “the Olympic torch belongs to us?”

    Get over it… the only ones excited about the Beijing Olympics are the athletics and Chinese themselves.

    CCTV needs to report facts to the Chinese, not emotions.

  39. Lately, one scene is keep on playing in my head again and again. That is, inside of the bird nest stadium, the French soccer term is on the gold metal stand, and just as the French flag is raising and the La Marseillaise is playing, all the Chinese in the stadium stood up, turned around 180 deg, loosed their belt and mooned.

    I’m not trying to give the Chinese any ideas. I just wish this would never become real.

  40. I meant “soccer team”.

  41. Fuck CNN and American

    April 17, 2008 at 9:28 am

    the fuckin CNN not only distorted the truth but aslo insulted chinese. The commentator(Cafferty) of the Situation Room said that

    “I think they’re(chinese) basically the same bunch of goons and thugs they’ve been for the last 50 years.” I highly recommend to boycot CNN

  42. the fuckin CNN not only distorted the truth but aslo insulted chinese. The commentator(Cafferty) of the Situation Room said that

    “I think they’re(chinese) basically the same bunch of goons and thugs they’ve been for the last 50 years.” I highly recommend to boycot CNN

  43. Every country have their own problem. The important is that do not disturb their own decision and choice. This is my value point. The people in their country belong to that country. Normally the government love their people. This is just like one family shall not disturb another family.

  44. Guess it’s passe for Americans to be patriotic.

    Self loathing is in fashion.

    Thank god we are not at that point.

  45. Love china .. If you love china ..

    Or do what i and my mate did ..

    Love TIBET .. If you dont love china..

    Don’t be a drama rama and post here Edit your MSN NOW..

    Love Tibet give them there freedom..

  46. i love my country(China) and i will support our people forever

    i DO THINK we do think!!!

  47. Love China means brainwashing?! Who give this stupid concept? Does that mean you love your contry,and you were brainwashed. Think about it, shit up !

  48. To the Truth and the other braindead entry,

    The reference from the CNN commentator was directed at the Chinese government, NOT the Chinese people. Learn to understand English before you comment. If you listen to the WHOLE commentary, it was directed only at the Government…oh, did you watch the CNN programme in question? Can you get it there in China? Or is it blocked like most free News programmes, such as the BBC? Or are you just repeating the one line shown nightly on your highly biased, government controlled News?

    I love China, and the Chinese people are what make me love her so much, but these recent sheep-like, unintelligent, thoughtless and unreasoned comments make me afraid for her future.

  49. I worked in Shanghai for 2.5 yrs and I really fell in love with China!!!

    Ask my friends and family, everyone knows I rave non-stop about China.

    It is such a powerful, dynamic, exciting, wonderful place to be. I get really sad and disappointed that many people are trying to create so much trouble for China.

    For the upcoming Olympics, it is not fair to the athlethes whom have trained so hard for so long, not fair to the construction workers who have toiled relentlessly to get the facilities ready, the amazing stadiums, roadways, housing all for this event, not fair to the China governement who just want to be good hosts to the whole.

    I really miss Shanghai, I miss all my friends and of course I (L) CHINA!!!!

  50. First of all, I am a Chinese who moved to NYC 8 years ago, I started my American education since freshman year of high school.

    I love my country, but I dislike(not hate) Chinese Communist Party. You should seperate CCP from China. CCP doesn’t represent China even though they think they are.

    Second, those of you who commented “learn english before posting”, go fuck yourself. You mean you need to learn Chinese before you comment anything on China.

    The fundamental issue is that China needs to have free media, not a media controlled by the its government. I agree, most people are brainwashed by the media/government since they are inter related to each other. The government basically manipulate Chinese people’s thoughts and emotions lead to current patriotism/nationalism. Chinese textbook is another issue, especially textbooks. Textbooks are suppose to be neutral, yet Chinese textbook(history) uses lots of adjetives to affect students’s opinion about a certain event. There are more evidences that shows most Chinese people are victims of “brainwash” by Chinese government.

    A few Frech people are ignorant by saying “go back to your home country” to Chinese students. If I was there, I would beat the shit out of him no matter what it takes. This statement is irrational, I know, but those French people deserve it for saying shit like that.

    The issues is complicated, its about internal soverignty and globalization.

    <3 China, and my city Shanghai

  51. jay wu(edit previous comment)

    April 17, 2008 at 1:00 pm

    First of all, I am a Chinese who moved to NYC 8 years ago, I started my American education since freshman year of high school.

    I love my country, but I dislike(not hate) Chinese Communist Party. When you think of China, you should seperate CCP from China. CCP doesn’t represent China even though they think they are.

    Second, those of you who commented “learn english before posting”, go fuck yourself. You mean you need to learn Chinese before you comment anything on China.

    The fundamental issue is that China needs to have a free media system just like the U.S., not a media controlled by the its government. I agree, most people are brainwashed by the media/government(they are inter related to each other). The government basically manipulates Chinese people’s thoughts and emotions lead to current patriotism/nationalism. Chinese textbook is another issue, especially history/social studies textbooks. Language in textbooks are suppose to be neutral, yet Chinese textbook(history) uses lots of adjetives to affect students’s opinion about a certain event. There are more evidences that shows most Chinese people are victims of “brainwashing” by Chinese government.

    A few Frech people are ignorant by saying “go back to your home country” to Chinese students. If I was there, I would beat the shit out of them no matter what it takes. MY statement is irrational, I know, but those French people deserve it for saying shit like that.

    This issue is complicated, and its about internal soverignty and globalization.

    <3 China, and my city Shanghai

  52. I personally find this movement quite amusing and rather sweet! Very much like waving glow sticks in some concerts. You wouldn’t call those concert goers brainwashed, would you?

    What’s wrong with showing ‘I(L) China’ ? It’s so much like those pins that you get saying ‘I Love New York’? Are New Yorkers brainwashed too?

    Since when is loving your country a bad thing? I’m sure that there are many of the messengers who can find 1001 things wrong with the government but who still love their country nonetheless.

    Love is not blind. You can still love in spite of everything.

  53. @whatif Hey smarty.

    Don’t you think they can do the same thing back to the Chinese?

  54. There’s nothing wrong in showing a little nationalism in our msn names. It’s peaceful, non intrusive and spontaneous. There is absolutely nothing wrong in showing a bit of national pride regardless of ur nationality, if you disagree with the concept of national pride you need some spirit, if you disagree with the concept of a mass movement and cite Nazis in ur defense you need some logic, if you hate us for loving our country then you need to have a little love in your life. China is not perfect, no country is. It is working hard to make a better home for 1/6th of the world a job that will require much trial and error. B4 you join the millions of westerners who blindly cry free tibet after reading a 200 word pamphlet perhaps it’s better to look into the matter further and get some background info. Tibet was a part of china for 1000 yrs before declaring independence.

    Don’t Hate

    I (L) China I (L) Tibet I (L) Peace I (L) The World

  55. Hey RC, I can ensure you they wouldn’t! They wouldn’t lower themselves to that level. They have higher moral standards. They know “Human Rights”.

  56. go china!!! (I am not from china)

    April 17, 2008 at 2:04 pm

    I think the news about China being unfair to Tibet is wrong because Tibet was taken over 100 years ago… long enough for some real change to happen if it was such a big deal… the Dhali Lama took the Olympic media just to get attention from the world… I mean come on China hasn’t been insulting any coutnry lately… and sides Dhali Lama’s people have been killing innocent people in China… and their not covering that in american news… also if China had to free Tibet wouldn’t that mean we have to free all the states that originally have been conquered or taken by force? that is too much chaos. Besides America should be focusing on itself right now rather than trying to be the “hero” of every country because we are going into a depression and we are wasting all our money on war… we use little excuses to trample other countries just because they are making money….I don’t think we have the right to go deal with other country’s business.

  57. Lol rc/whatif Chinese soccer team on the podium? ahahahhaahahha if that day comes millions of chinese soccer fans will die of laughter, joy, and dehydration from over crying. France and China used to be great allies and friends and i believe they still can be. We can not build our world based on what the media reports our perception should not be skewed by groups of people bent on attracting our short attention in any means possible.

  58. To Wang Jianshuo ,

    I agree with the rule you set. No rule, no game. Otherwise the dialogues among different camps will lead to nowhere , and eventually we will stop generating wonderful debating but start throwing bricks into each other.

    To GN,

    I sincerely apologize for the offensive comments I made on your skin and brain . I affirm you have both two organs , and they should be of normal size.

    Additionally, to show my respect for the rule, I will use the example given by the blog master to rephrase my original sentence in this way.

    Your idea is the worst I’ve ever heard of …..

    And to the rest of the people here who might feel even slightly offended by my comments on GN, you have my sincere apology. I came here to seek understanding , communication and ways to solve the problem, rather than to make it worse.

    Summer_go

  59. “Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the world” – Albert Einstein

  60. I found this whole LOVE CHINA thing so lame. Can people be more creative in expressing their patriotism/nationalism? It is NOT COOL when 80% of the people on the MSN/Windows Live Messenger list are doing same thing.

    Just a few more thoughts I have:

    1) If the Chinese are so proud of themselves, why do they place so much emphasis on a Western cultural event/creation – the modern Olympics? The Chinese should just say ‘Fuck It, we will have no more of this shit – we will NOT host the your (Western) 2008 games, we will create our own China Games (but the world is welcome to join)’, if they feel that they had been slighted by Western media (by linking the games and politics). But by the same token, it is the Chinese government that politicize the games, by using the games to showcase China to the world as a new superpower. Investing billions of dollars into Beijing for a 2.5 week event doesn’t make much economic sense, unless the goal is project China’s new stature to the world. I don’t buy that showcasing the Chinese culture argument, or doing it for the spirit of sports. The games have always been used, rightly or wrongly, as a political tool. Therefore the Chinese people should make such a fuss about the Western media politicizing the games, when the original intent of hosting the 2008 games was a political decision by the Chinese government.

    2) There are posters here saying that England and France wanted to sabotage China’s 2008 Olympics Games by not providing security thus allowing Tibetan protestors to interrupt the flame relay.

    – First, the flame relay run is really only a symbolic thing of a global party (i.e. Olympic Games) – that’s it – the flame doesn’t signify anything other than a symbol of a global party. The IOC is NOT a political body. Therefore why should the English or French government (using their citizen’s tax dollar) foot the bill for providing extra security to protect a symbol for a party to be held in another country ???

    – Second, unlike in China, in the USA, England, and France, people do have the right to protest (unfortunately sometimes those protest do get ugly – but that’s the price of freedom of expression). Should the USA, England, France, and elsewhere suspend their citizen’s right to freedom of expression while the Olympic torch passes through their cities? I mean, there were much bigger and uglier protests when it came to IMF / World Bank / Economic Summits meetings — the right to freedom of expression was not suspended in those instances – which had much more importance to the world than the 2.5 week party known as the Olympic games.

    3) The talk of boycotts of each other’s products are just SILLY. America and Europe will continue buying made-in-China products because the price is just irresistible. Well-off Chinese will continue to queue-up at LV, Gucci, Prada, and other top luxury brand name stores in Shanghai and Hong Kong to buy these European brands.

    4) I really do think that the Chinese government, through its controlled media, is stirring up anti-Western sentiments in China. The media in China is creating this sense that the Western world is against China. I can tell you that this is not true – far from it. The majority of Americans are politically apathetic – they care about more who will win the “Next American Idol” than who will win the next American presidency … and human rights in China and Tibetan status in China are waaay down in their (majority of Americans) list of concerns. Of course there is always the loud minority – the protestors / liberal do-gooders – which is what the Chinese media is reporting / what the Chinese government allows its citizen to read/see through its controlled internet.

  61. I found this whole LOVE CHINA thing so lame. Can people be more creative in expressing their patriotism/nationalism? It is NOT COOL when 80% of the people on the MSN/Windows Live Messenger list are doing same thing.

    Just a few more thoughts I have:

    1) If the Chinese are so proud of themselves, why do they place so much emphasis on a Western cultural event/creation – the modern Olympics? The Chinese should just say ‘Fuck It, we will have no more of this shit – we will NOT host the your (Western) 2008 games, we will create our own China Games (but the world is welcome to join)’, if they feel that they had been slighted by Western media (by linking the games and politics). But by the same token, it is the Chinese government that politicize the games, by using the games to showcase China to the world as a new superpower. Investing billions of dollars into Beijing for a 2.5 week event doesn’t make much economic sense, unless the goal is project China’s new stature to the world. I don’t buy that showcasing the Chinese culture argument, or doing it for the spirit of sports. The games have always been used, rightly or wrongly, as a political tool. Therefore the Chinese people should NOT make such a fuss about the Western media politicizing the games, when the original intent of hosting the 2008 games was a political decision by the Chinese government.

    2) There are posters here saying that England and France wanted to sabotage China’s 2008 Olympics Games by not providing security thus allowing Tibetan protestors to interrupt the flame relay.

    – First, the flame relay run is really only a symbolic thing of a global party (i.e. Olympic Games) – that’s it – the flame doesn’t signify anything other than a symbol of a global party. The IOC is NOT a political body. Therefore why should the English or French government (using their citizen’s tax dollar) foot the bill for providing extra security to protect a symbol for a party to be held in another country ???

    – Second, unlike in China, in the USA, England, and France, people do have the right to protest (unfortunately sometimes those protest do get ugly – but that’s the price of freedom of expression). Should the USA, England, France, and elsewhere suspend their citizen’s right to freedom of expression while the Olympic torch passes through their cities? I mean, there were much bigger and uglier protests when it came to IMF / World Bank / Economic Summits meetings — the right to freedom of expression was not suspended in those instances – which had much more importance to the world than the 2.5 week party known as the Olympic games.

    3) The talk of boycotts of each other’s products are just SILLY. America and Europe will continue buying made-in-China products because the price is just irresistible. Well-off Chinese will continue to queue-up at LV, Gucci, Prada, and other top luxury brand name stores in Shanghai and Hong Kong to buy these European brands.

    4) I really do think that the Chinese government, through its controlled media, is stirring up anti-Western sentiments in China. The media in China is creating this sense that the Western world is against China. I can tell you that this is not true – far from it. The majority of Americans are politically apathetic – they care about more who will win the “Next American Idol” than who will win the next American presidency … and human rights in China and Tibetan status in China are waaay down in their (majority of Americans) list of concerns. Of course there is always the loud minority – the protestors / liberal do-gooders – which is what the Chinese media is reporting / what the Chinese government allows its citizen to read/see through its controlled internet.

  62. Regarding Henry Gu’s question on “How to make Zune2 to support Chinese language”, the answer is that there is no way to do that unless you revert back to the old Zune1 firmware and copy a Chinese font file into it. This issue definitely got the Zune team’s attention. However they haven’t given a timeframe to when this support will be implemented yet. The only thing we can do (I have two Zunes with 80GB and 4GB) is wait until they have decided to get their feet wet in China music player market. :)

  63. @andrew

    I disagree with your 4th point. I am a Chinese but I live abroad. I’ve never paid attention to those “controlled media”, but I still have the sense that the Western world is against China. This is something you should really think about. This means they really hurt the feelings of Chinese people.

  64. To andrew:

    You wrote a long essay, but this essay failed to address the main reason a lot of Chinese (at least, me) feels the need for support — China is being bullied internationally by news media such as CNN using *distorted news and reports*.

    http://www.anti-cnn.com/ — you may feel disgusted by the name of this web site (I don’t like it either), but scroll down and look at the pictures and see for yourself. If you have time, watch the videos near the top. Like it or not, this is the truth — these news media are distorting truths and building a bad image for China in the minds of the rest of the world, and that is what we’re angry about.

    I personally don’t care if the Olympics become political (it has always been). I’m ok with people protesting in England and stuff. I don’t care for any boycotting of products either. *BUT CONTROLLED MEDIA IS WHAT DISTURBS ME.* You know what’s interesting? You mentioned Chinese gov’t controlling media, but read the web site above, and tell me if western media is not being controlled?

    This, my friend, is why I would gladly put (L) China in my MSN, if only just to raise *real* awareness of this issue. By the way, GN, do you still think we’re not thinking?

  65. To Andrew and Stun Edge,

    I couldn’t have agreed more. I live in Northern-Europe and don’t blindly believe everything from the Chinese media. I believe in freedom of speech. People in the West definitely have the right to protest.

    What really piss me off this time is how the majority of Western ‘free’ media covered the Tibet riot and torch. That’s just so totally wrong and incredibly unfair. I don’t blame some extreme Western people’s reaction. If I only watched and listened to the Western coverage, I would probably have jumped to the wrong conclusion.

    Another thing, Chinese people see Olympic games as a celebration of the nation and its people, not the government. No matter Chinese people are angry. If someone try to ruin your home party, you would be mad too.

    Western people have their way of expressing themselves, so do Chinese people.

    After some thoughts, I am now for boycotting imported French goods, specailly travels to France.

    The voice of Chinese people needs to bee heard!

  66. I changed my MSN signature into (L) China, too.

    Fairly say, tho there are still all kinds of problems in China, but I am always proud of being a Chinese.

    It is understandable that lots of westerns can’t and are not able to see the real side of China, because of all the propagandas. I can’t say that there are no propagandas in China, but so does every single other government. Politics are always shameless, but it has nothing to do with Chinese citizens.

    There are greedy ones who is making all kinds of ridicules bullsh*t, trading the honor of China, their country for a 10 years visa, for themselves.

    Stay away from those lies, listen to the voice from billions of Chinese and millions of REAL residence of Tibet and find out what IS the truth.

  67. @ summer_go, Thanks for you note! In terms of my organs, no report from any doc of anything missing… no idea how big the brain is either… it works.

  68. @ Stun Edge,

    I don’t disagree that wester media should be watched. It should be watched very closely. This is a known fact, it’s not anything new, what so ever. They did false report, point it out and make them correct it. But turn CNN or BBC to be “the West”?! It doesn’t make sense. They don’t represent America nor Britain… especially CNN, it’s a private company… a lot of people don’t watch CNN at all. BBC is indeed a different animal, but if “BBS hate Chinese” is what you believe, you know what, you’ll have to believe that “they hate everybody”. Then turn some protests during Olympic events to be “China hate”or even “anti Chinese people”… it makes less sense.

    Some of you keep saying that people’s feelings were hurt. I am sorry that so many people feel hurt. But the fact is that international affairs are not about feelings. You are on the international stage. There are many people don’t live the way you do, and don’t want the same way. They may not like your way of life/thinking at all. They will not say things just to please you. That doesn’t mean they hate you. Sometimes, things are not totally fair in your perspective, it’s not pleasant. Understand. Some other readers on this blog offered some profound insights on how to deal with situation like this before. I am sure, I hope, you read it.

    Many others have said same things already… protesting in any of these involved countries (US, UK, France etc.) are norm, it’s a part of life. It is everybody’s right. There are always some people don’t agree on something… big deal. Every other day, there’ll be some people holding signs out side US Army recruiting offices… to protest against the War… it’s been going on for five some years. In general, people want their government to be criticized in order to make sure that they (the government) do a better job. If nobody is criticizing the government, something is wrong.

    A good image of a nation depends on how a nation treats its people, all people not just the elite and majority groups… how the people treat each other… how, together, they deal with other countries. If people really love the motherland and see all people of the land as one family, they should found out why some members (Tibetans in this case) of the family are not happy. I didn’t hear too many Chinese people demanding on finding out the truth… not some reports from CCTV or other agencies… not even just who burned who’s shoppes. Something is really wrong when people burn their own cities. Instead, I heard and saw people, by in large, focusing on others’ deeds, CNN/BBC etc., their wrongs their unfairness. Then finally, turn the event to be a “movement of national pride”… rise and guard our honor… You don’t sense this is an odd chain of events? I have no problem with people want to show how much they love a country. But this time, at this moment, for this reason, it is infantile.

  69. I am British with some ancestors from Italy and the Ukraine. Waving flags often seems to get people over-excited and leads to saying foolish things, sometimes to hatred of foreigners and violence. I have followed the Tibet story and the Olympic torch story in British, American and Chinese media. The coverage in most British and American media has been biased and lacked historical context. If you want honest coverage try http://www.ft.com.

    Getting angry and boycotting does not persuade other people of the justice of your cause, it just makes them stop listening and start shouting themselves. The best way is to quietly present the facts and express your hurt at being misunderstood. By being better than the biased and belligerent idiots, you will impress the thinking people. In the long run reason wins.

    Senile French idiots saying rude things to students does not matter half as much as the effect that meeting Chinese students in person has on people like me. I have learned to admire their intelligence, hard work and kindness. Any university lecturer in the UK is very pleased to have Chinese students for just these reasons. There are about 12,000 Chinese residents in Manchester’s China Town, near to where I live. It is where everyone goes to eat and drink and have a good time. Tens of thousands go every year to the celebrations for Chinese New Year. There are also over 6,000 Chinese students in Manchester. We like them.

    http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/search/hprsq/10/1/publicationdate/1001/chinatown

    Ignore the idiots: they want you to be upset. So don’t be.

  70. Support China all the way!!!!!!!! =)

    Don’t even care what the western world thinks anymore, they don’t know about anything about China.

  71. The only reason this whole gesture started is because it seems like parts of the world are “gaining up” on China.

    Naturally this would just ignite patriotism to the people of China.

    Can’t we just have peace to all?????????????

  72. * “ganging up”

  73. China is my motherland, I love it deeply! From this event, I know who is our friend and who is our enemy.

  74. China 不能完全大写;完全大写是支那;完全小写是瓷器.应该是首字母大写,要不然闹笑话 .因为中国在联合国是用China ,而台湾 加入联合国他们的方案就是采用CHINA 所以请将CHINA改成China 请转发给使用大写 MSN 網友

  75. To Andrew,

    In terms of wonderful things, no matter it’s a beautiful art work, or a great invention , or a great sports event, like Olympics , I think SHARING by the whole human kind is a magnificent thing. We all know that powder was invented in Eastern world, to be more specific , it was invented in China . Well, hopefully, your ” free press ” has given fair report on that fact. But for the moment it is best utilized in Western world, well, to be more specific , in the U.S army. See what the U.S. force had done in Iraq ! How many buildings had they bombed ? How many innocent people, including children, had they killed ? We did not say, ‘Fuck It, Go back to use your spear. Stop using the powder we invented ! ” and we did not boycott any products made in U.S. because of the slaughter. Why ? Because Chinese people drew a very distinct line between American government and American people. We know that American parents feel the same grieve when they lose theirs sons in the war like any Chinese parents would do in those instances.

    Back to the boycott things. Well, stop shopping French products might be silly. But so far as I am concerned, holding a sign which reads ” No Fur ” before Harrods is nothing smarter, because that would NOT prevent fashion industry making billions of U.S dollars profit from fur business. But I do respect those protestors, as they have showed concern for the environment and the nature. By the way, I used to think the protesting in free western countries should not involve any personal attacks. Apparently I was wrong because even a disabled lady could have been attacked under the name of ” free protection” , and nobody offered shelter because ” the government should not waste their citizen’s tax dollar on petty things like this ” !

    In today’s China’s newspaper, the Chinese government called for a ” dispassionate and reasonable mental attitude” toward ” boycotting Carrefour ” , they said the patriotism is understandable, but unreasonable behavior like “boycott French products ” is discouraged. ” In this sense , I can agree no more that Chinese press is “unfreeze”, because it concealed the hostility some western countries had showed for China, though it might be in small proportion, but the behaviors were disgusting enough to hurt us all.

  76. “unfreeze” should have been “unfree”. Unfreeze makes no sense here. BTW, though we could not have full coverage from CCTV, we can learn some truth from internet. China possesed of the largest population of internet surfers in the world.

    Thank Hieronymous for his comments which sounds reasonable and neutral. I paid a visit to U.K. last summer. The people are great, but the food there sucks. ( Am I breaking the rule again ? Is attacking food in some country allowed on this blog ? )

    TO GN, though I can not agree with you on some of your points, but I am sure you have brain, and it does works !

  77. I have nothing against the Chinese people or their sense of patriotism.

    I do however, have a problem with the Chinese Communist government and their lack of human rights. I guess it’s really Communism which is holding the different regions of China together though, otherwise it would probably be chaos when people are able to express their own opinions, which may clash with others.

  78. @ summer-go,

    are you sure the Chinese invented powder? What powder? Comestic powder? Those you use on your face when you go partying?

    Make yourself clear… I am sure you meant “gun powder”!

  79. Hi @summer_go… ahem… ahhh… actually there is no such word in the English language “UNFREE”… :D

  80. Well, I’m going to boycott French letters! Anyone care to join me?

  81. Hahahahaha – @belacqua – now things are getting really dangerous!!

  82. @summer_go As an Englishman, I’m not offended. Attacking British food, would appear to be a sport enjoyed the world over…

    However, what I do find noteworthy is that the British National dish is now curry, and this after only (at most) 400 hundred years of relations with Indians.

    On the other hand, after the 1000’s of years of close relations with Tibetans, there do not appear to be many Han Chinese who eat tsampa or any other Tibetan food.

    I do wonder what, in fact, the Han Chinese have learnt from their long association with the Tibetans.

    Just an aside…

  83. @summer_go, Yes… works damn good.

  84. I think most people here don’t really understand the patriotism is not in fashion anymore in the west. The only people that get coverage by medias are the people that loath their own countries, and trashed their officials. If you question, you are called the Neocons. And most of these well educated idiots do not understand why “the repressed people of China, still loved China”

    I am Chinese American, being up front, I do not believe in all the victimology that the mass media peddled this days. I still consider myself Chinese, even though I live in US. I have a problem with people who are only skin deep when it comes to other people’s country. Tibet is an issue, and I do think Chinese Government should work with the Tibetan people. Give up Tibet? Absolutely not. Is Britian willing to give up their Virgin Islands in the Bahamas? Are US ready to give up California or Texas? If there wasn’t a coup in the Ivory Coast, the French will stay there and exploit the African indefinitely. I am sorry if I am a bit cynical with this.

    Do the people in Tibet ever known Freedom? This Daila Lama is the first to leave Tibet right? If I am wrong on that, I apologize in advance. If Tibet become a stand alone country, they are going to be a theocracy country anyway. At that time, Daila Lama will be the supreme ruler of the Tibet, so, what is the difference? I do think China should let Dalai Lama back to Tibet, but, any talk about independence should be stopped. Tibet is part of China, get over it. Just like Texas or the British Virgin Islands.

    I think most of the people that attack the athelets are cowards, they know they are in a safe distance, and the so call “Civilized” people will not persecute them. How many of them actually lived in Tibet before the communist and after and compare the difference? probably none, so, it is all second hand information, they are like parrots, repeating everything feed to them by the mass media, that is why I called them well educated idiots. They do have the pact mentality too, if one of them think it is an issue, they all think it is an issue, so, you call this individual thinking? Just remember this, the true genious and great thinkers are truly loney people, because they do not have many peers. I think the current views of the world are a bunch of spoiled brats keep repeating each other so they won’t be the lone voice out there. It is pretty sad.

    As for GN, I happen to be a designer too, but I do not see things you way. Designer are designing for the people, if people enjoy it, it is a successful design, (Successful, not great, there is a difference) if only a few of your friends thinks it is a great design, but the rest of the crowd do not see it that way, are you sure it is a good design, of these country bumkins just do not have the taste level for it? That is a very condecenting way of talking to your fellow countrymen.

    As for Belacqua, I think the reason why Curry had become the British National Dish is because British wasn’t known for their culinary ability. The French did not take up their African ethnic dishes as their national dish don’t they? So, Chinese had thousands of years of supreme culinary skill, so, we aren’t as easily integrated as the British. Also, I think we do have a certain pride on our own culture, especially in regards to food.

  85. @Dancingdots, Sorry, it was not about design. All I said was that was how it appeared to me. And I am so glad you don’t see it the same way… that is the point.

    This is kind of wasting of time by now… 整个一个车轱轳转,转轱轳车。

  86. I am living on this land, and you are thouands of miles far away, but now you are trying to tell me, you know this land better than me. Haha, this is what the western guys try to do, I met many, they told me I don’t know the truth, stuipid, there is no exact truth, the words from the powderful party of your place is the truth, same in China or your “Freedom country” .

  87. I am living on this land, and you are thouands of miles far away, but now you are trying to tell me, you know this land better than me. Haha, this is what the western guys try to do, I met many, they told me I don’t know the truth, stuipid, there is no exact truth, the words from the powderful party of your place is the truth, same in China or your “Freedom country” .

  88. @nick – I’m a ‘western guy’ but don’t tell you or anyone else that I know yours or anyone else’s country (or island) better than you… I am respectful – so no need for you to generalize – keep it impersonal hey?

  89. To BO,

    Yeah. What I meant is ” gun power ” . Thanks for the correction. Cosmetic powder was not invented by the Chinese. It was invented around 4000 B.C. in ancient Egypt. Now cosmetic power has been extended into a form of art by the French. That’s why I say ” sharing ” is good thing.

    To Aussiepb,

    Are you sure you don’t have a word like ” unfree ” in English ? I saw it all the time on internet. Try Google if you don’t believe. The engine will return you thousands of results containing ” unfree” , and most of them are from websites in English. Anyway, since you’re the native speaker, you have the say.

    To belacqua,

    When it comes to food, I think it’s totally about personal preference rather than your view on any political issues. That I don’t eat tsampa does not necessarily imply that the Han Chinese did not learn from their long association with the Tibetans. This assumption is just ridiculous. BTW, there are lots of ethnical groups in China, and I happened to be one of them. I am not Han Chinese, but I have Han food all the time. Does this help prove that ” I have learned enough from my long association with the Han Chinese” ?

  90. Wow, so an entry like this produces the most comments. Like I have always said before its when the Chinese haters have the chance to,that they will lash out (like that Cafferty guy on CNN) But it’s expected that with success one will produce enemies. I guess the West does not want to see a rising power.

    Scared dogs bark the loudest.

    Don’t be hypocritical … free Hawaii (which is oceans away from America), Alaska, the “American” Samoa, stop bombing Vierques Puerto Rico for US military practice!

  91. In my last post, it would seem I inadvertently exaggerated the Chinese case.

    “For more than 700 years, the central government of China has continuously exercised sovereignty over Tibet and Tibet has never been an independent state”

    PRC White Paper, 1992 – “Tibet – It’s Ownership and Human Rights Situation”, 1992, p.17.

    My sincere apologies to all concerned for my previous ignorant assertion!

  92. (L)CHINA - 全世界爱祖国的华人现在写的

    (N)Western Hypocrisy

  93. @ dancingdots “I think the reason why Curry had become the British National Dish is because British wasn’t known for their culinary ability. The French did not take up their African ethnic dishes as their national dish don’t they?”

    Okay, now this is a bit of a slur, but I’ll overlook it. I’ll merely suggest you consult the history of British cuisine before making ignorant assertions. As for your comment about French eating habits, you are quite simply wrong. Couscous, for example, is very much a part of French culture.

    Anyway, it would seem you miss my point… and similarly:

    @ summer_to says “When it comes to food, I think it’s totally about personal preference rather than your view on any political issues. That I don’t eat tsampa does not necessarily imply that the Han Chinese did not learn from their long association with the Tibetans. This assumption is just ridiculous.”

    I accept that the fact that few (if any) Han eat tsampa doesn’t mean that the Han have not been influenced. However, rather than prioritising this statement of mine and calling it ridiculous, why not provide me with concrete examples of Tibetan influence in Han culture? That’s actually what I was asking for, and not examples of Han influence.

    Recently, the Chinese ambassador to the UK wrote in The Telegraph that “…For the Chinese people, Tibet is a loved land and information about it is ample.”

    Now… seems to me to be rather disingenious. While she doesn’t exactly say so she implies also that information about Tibetan culture is ‘ample’. However, can anyone direct me to a shop in Mainland China which sells recorded materials to learn the Tibetan language? I haven’t yet found one in Beijing, Shanghai or Guangzhou. Also, it seems rather difficult to get a Chinese translation of the Bardo Thodol in Mainland China, which was first published in English translation in 1927. A Chinese friend, who’s very interested in Tibetan culture, had never even heard of it before I mentioned it to her.

  94. To GN,

    If loving our own country is refers to be brain-washed, then we can say you are brain washed either by your country and those western medias.

    To Andrew:

    1. As Chinese, we do apround of as being Chinese, we also do appreciate good things from any other culltures. If we don’t study English, how we can communicate with a common Languagenow?

    2. If CNN, BBC,.. those medias may not controlled by goverments,, who knows? but indeed, they controlled by those un- profeesional jounalist who only report the news based on their preferecne, you are sure you are not brain -washed by them?

  95. @Lucy We can see quite clearly that the BBC is an independent news service by the fact that not so long ago the British government took the BBC to court over allegations BBC reporters made about the government’s involvement in the war in Iraq.

    Maybe you would have enjoyed those news stories if you’d followed them closely.

  96. @Lucy, I was brainwashed by my country. Why don’t you read what I said before, again, then you’ll know which county that was. The difference is… I know it. Don’t stop loving your country. It’s my country too.

  97. To Andrew,

    I have been following BBC and CNN all the time in recent days. That’s why I thought they were biased western media in term of coverage on China. ( I only read reports on China so I won’t make judgment on their reports on other nations or countries ) . Well, if you follow BBC closely enough, probably you have already read a report titled ” China-online: Tibet and torch reaction ” . You will also find that Wang Jianshuo, the master of this blog, was refered in that report.

    More interestingly, you can find a link of a ditty titled ” Don’t be too CNN ” on that page. It’s a video widely spread among blogs and netizens in recent days, and almost everyone of us can hum this loverly song. ” Don’t be too CNN” means “don’t be too arrogant and ignore the fact ” . When one of the colleagues tends to be too judgmental or keeps ignoring facts, we will remind him or her ” Don’t be too CNN ” or ” You’re behaving BBC now “. This became quite popolar in recent conversations.

    As for the Tibetan lauguage thing. I could care less about learning it. Why ? Because I myself is an ethnic minority , if you remember that, and I have my own language to learn. I also learned mandarin from primary school, and then English, so I would be able to communicate with you guys here. Do you know that there are 56 ethnic groups here in China ? Like Tu Jia, Miao , Zhuang . …. just to name a few of them. Tibetan is just only one of them, nothing special. I don’t think their people or their language are superior than mine. We are just equal. But why some westerners only took intest in Tibet ? I guess that is because some monks there caused troubles. This is something some westerners are willing to see, and they could not be more happier than seeing turbulence in China

  98. Sorry. My last post was addressed to ” Belacqua ” in stead of Andrew.

    Lucy, GN is a Native Chinese and his brain works damn good ……

  99. summer-go, You are right on this last note. Thanks for helping me out.

  100. @summer_go

    Okay, it’s evident that I’m wasting my time here. It would seem that you are deliberately obfuscating.

    I have lived in China for more than 4 years and I have extensive knowledge of it. I am undoubtedly familiar with more of its cities through personal experience than most Chinese. I do not need you to patronise me as you seem to think is your duty.

    I am of course well aware of that saccharine tune, ‘Don’t be too CNN.’ I don’t need you to tell me what some Chinese netizens are doing.

    I have asked you very simple and straightforward questions, yet you refuse to answer them.

    Maybe, I can direct you to this little poem:

    http://www.douban.com/group/topic/2995095/

  101. As it’s appropriate to the topic of this blog, I’m posting the poem here. I imagine this blog is only frequented by adults? Well, I’ll quite understand if this posting is deemed unacceptable. However, I do think it’s worth considering other views of this (L)China phenomenon and the boycotting of French products.

    今天是全欧大游行的日子,

      爱国青年们占领了巴黎;

      在香榭丽舍他们高喊口号:

      这是最后的斗争我们团结起来

      到明天!!!

      

      不用到明天

      今夜的爱国青年们已经烂醉如泥

      看吧,十一区是我们的地盘,

      到处都是我们的兄弟!!

      

      啊,看,这里有一些french lady

      他们金发碧眼,波涛汹涌

      还有诱人的大pp

      

      代表祖国代表人民我掏出100欧

      

      快点快点,

      脱衣脱衣

      别玩什么前戏,

      french kiss我们要坚决抵制,

      french fuck也毫无意义

      不,不

      不用吹了,french sex也不行

      

      跨马提枪他亮出了小鸡鸡

      ”今夜我就要占领巴黎!!!”

      french cap也不戴了,

      安全第一比不过民族大义

      

      

      啊,那是多么的畅快淋漓

      金发碧眼在我的底下呻吟

      在欧罗巴的大陆上我蹂躏了法兰西

      

      一个星期之后,

      爱国青年准备回国报效母亲,

      在海关,他被查出感染了 french disease

      

      Oh Shit!!!

  102. Here’s some quotes by a famous person for you all:

    “All great movements are popular movements. They are the volcanic eruptions of human passions and emotions, stirred into activity by the ruthless Goddess of Distress or by the torch of the spoken word cast into the midst of the people. ”

    “All propaganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprehension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach.”

    “By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise.”

    “It is always more difficult to fight against faith than against knowledge.”

    “The broad masses of a population are more amenable to the appeal of rhetoric than to any other force.”

    …and the classic…

    “How fortunate for leaders that men do not think.”

    Smart guy.

  103. Guys, when trolls like GN or summer_go get agitated (maybe they are the same troll, or one brainwashes the other) and has to use the internet for mental relieve, you are doing something right.

    KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

  104. summer_go, nice to see you here posting like mad, body odor and all.

    Why do you change your screen name for this blog? Since you devote your so-called life to posting anti-chinese messages, at least have the courage of using one screen name, you coward.

  105. This is getting weird and counter-productive. Round and round in circles we go.

  106. Hi Belacqua,

    The poem you posted on this blog was just spiteful, disgusting , and offensive in particular for women . It serves a good example how evil can be exercised under the name of ” freedom”, no matter it is a ” free posting ” or ” free protest “. Ô Liberté, que de crimes on commet en ton nom ! ”

    However, the poem you posted here does NOT mean:

    1) the message it conveys is right, or

    2) most Chinese people love this poem and think the same. ( On the contrary, most Chinese people will find it disgusting , like I do. ) , or

    3) the majority Chinese people should be accused because of this poem.

    Similarly , I can give you plenty of links directing to offensive comments on China and its people, and I can also share with you some most disgusting things done by some Western hoodlums in night club, bar streets in Bei Jing , Shang Hai and Guang Zhou.

    But I won’t do that. Why ? Because those virulent things have nothing to do with people here, and what bunch of goons and thugs did in China does’t represent the majority of people in their home countries, or imply that the majority people should foot the bill for the wrong things done by a small proportion.

    In this sense, you were doing nothing smarter than some biased western media by purposely selecting the worst side and trying to make the rest of the people believe that this represent the majority of the Chinese, which is pathetical and totally wrong.

    What piss me off most is that any discussion , ANY, between some arrogant westerners and a Chinese, would be eventually directed to Tibet or human rights. It is the most popular game enjoyed by biased wetsterns around the whole world.

    I came to this blog to seek possiblities of communication and understanding bettween diffirent camps, but all of my efforts turned out to be in vain. The bias is just rooted in both sides of us too deeply, and the great gulf between us can unlikely be filled.

    To put an end to my last visit to this blog, let me borrow what you wrote in your last post with only minor changes, which can perfectly describe how I feel now.

    WE have lived in China for more than 5,000 YEARS and WE have extensive knowledge of it. WE ARE undoubtedly familiar with more of its cities, HISTORY, CULTURE AND THE REALITY through personal experience than most WESTERNERS. WE do not need you to patronise US as you seem to think is your duty.

    This is a very clear message I am trying to convey to people like you , in your own lauauge and your original sentences. Hopefully you will clearly receive it.

  107. Mr. Wang, I have something for you and your readers.

    I got the following from http://www.german-foreign-policy.com/en/fulltext/56145

    For the links, you have to go to the above URL to actually click on the various links.

    A very short excerpt : Germany is behind the Pro-Tibet movement’s “Grab The Torch to Embarrass China” campaign.

    Hope that this can do you and your country folks some good.

    =============== = ===============

    The Olympic Torch Relay Campaign

    2008/04/08

    LHASA/BERLIN

    (Own report) – Conference reports and the research of a Canadian journalist reveal that a German Foreign Ministry front organization is playing a decisive role in the preparations of the anti-Chinese Tibet campaign. According to this information, the campaign is being orchestrated from a Washington based headquarters. It had been assigned the task of organizing worldwide “protests” at a conference organized by the Friedrich Naumann Foundation (affiliated with the German Free Democratic Party – FDP) in May 2007. The plans were developed with the collaboration of the US State Department and the self-proclaimed Tibetan Government in Exile and call for high profile actions along the route of the Olympic Torch Relay and are supposed to reach a climax in August during the games in Beijing. The campaign began already last summer and is now profiting from the current uprising in the west of the People’s Republic of China that is receiving prominent coverage in the German media. The uprising was initiated with murderous pogrom-like attacks by Tibetan gangs on non-Tibetan members of the population, including the Muslim Chinese minority. Numerous deaths of non-Tibetans provoked a reaction of the Chinese security forces.

    According to the research by a Canadian journalist, a conference organized by the Friedrich Naumann Foundation (FNSt) gave the impetus to the current anti-Chinese Tibet campaign that violently forced the interruption of the Olympian Torch Relay in Paris last Monday.[1] The conference was the fifth “International Tibet Support Groups Conference,” that was held from May 11 – 14, 2007 in Brussels. According to FNSt information this conference was supposed to do nothing other than the four preceding conferences [2] – “coordinate the work of the international Tibet groups and consolidate the links between them with the central Tibetan Government in Exile.”[3] The German foundation, which is largely state financed, began the conference preparations in March 2005, and coordinated its plans with the Dalai Lama at his headquarters in the self-proclaimed Tibetan Government in Exile in Dharamsala, India. More than 300 participants from 56 countries, 36 Tibetan associations and 145 Tibet support groups were represented at the conference.

    Roadmap

    After several days of consultations the conference ended with a concerted “plan of action”. The paper is entitled “Roadmap for the Tibet Movement for the Coming Years” covering four areas of interest: “political support for negotiations”, “human rights”, “environment and development” and “the 2008 Olympic games in Beijing.” The results of the conference are directed to the Tibetan people as well as “their supporters around the world.”[4] Rolf Berndt, a member of the FNSt’s executive council in Brussels, declared that the Olympic Games “are an excellent opportunity” to publicly promote the cause of the “Tibet Movement”.[5] The conference participants agreed to make the Olympics the single focus of attack for their activities for the next 15 months.[6] They hired a full-time organizer for their campaign, who has since been directing the worldwide Tibet actions from their Washington headquarters.

    State Department

    The decisions taken at the conference in Brussels, prepared by the Friedrich Naumann Foundation, are particularly significant not only because of the large number of participants but also because of the influential politicians who helped in their formulation. For example the self-proclaimed Tibetan Government in Exile, which enjoys much prestige among separatists, was represented by its “Prime Minister” Samdong Rinpoche. Also attending was another eminent politician from the Indian Himachal Pradesh state, bordering on the People’s Republic of China, where the town Dharamsala is located, the “seat” of the Tibetan “Government in Exile.” A brisk interchange takes place between Himachan Pradesh and the Chinese autonomous region of Tibet. Paula Dobriansky, the Undersecretary of State in the US State Department and special coordinator for Tibet questions also participated. She was a member of the National Security Council already in the Reagan Administration, continued her career in the State Department during the administration of President Bush Sr. and since 2001 was again in the US foreign ministry. Ms Drobriansky is considered to be one of the members of the neo-conservative inner circle in the Bush Administration and ranks as a hard-liner capable of imposing policy.

    Every Day

    As a Canadian journalist learned through his research, the campaign headquarters in Washington, that had been decided upon at the conference in Brussels, has been able to develop rather successful activities. Already at the beginning of August 2007, exactly one year before the opening of the Olympics, a close associate organized a high profile action at the tourist filled Great Wall to the north of Beijing. She maintains close contact to the Tibetan “Government in Exile”.[7] Another close associate recently orchestrated the disturbance of the Olympic Torch Relay in Greece, seen on television around the world. The Washington headquarters is orchestrating other “protests” intended to disturb the Torch Relay. The campaign will reach its climax during the Olympic games in August. “We are determined to have non-violent direct action in the heart of Beijing, inside the Games, every day,” one activist declared.[8]

    Merciless

    The anti-Chinese Tibet campaign, initiated under the direction of a German Foreign Ministry front organization (Friedrich Naumann Foundation) and a high-ranking representative of the US State Department, is developing its full efficacy in the aftermath of the uprisings in West People’s Republic of China that began only a few days before the start of the Torch Relay. Whereas the German media mainly reported on brutal attacks of the Chinese security forces, eye-witness accounts provide a different picture of what happened. The British journalist, James Miles (“The Economist”), who was in Lhasa from March 12 – 19, reports of pogrom-like attacks by Tibetan gangs on non-Tibetan members of the population of the city, among them the Muslim minority. According to Miles, the shops of Tibetan merchants were marked and left unscathed while all other shops were plundered, destroyed or set afire.[9] In one building alone five textile saleswomen were burned to death. Besides Miles, western tourists also described the attacks on non-Tibetans. One Canadian saw how a group of Tibetans beat a Chinese motorcyclist and proceeded to “mercilessly” stone him. “Eventually they got him on the ground, they were hitting him on the head with stones until he lost consciousness. I believe that young man was killed,” reported the tourist.[10]

    Manipulations

    Whereas Miles was describing the reluctant reactions of the Chinese security forces in an interview broadcast over CNN, the German media is using the uprisings as a backdrop to represent brutal Chinese repression. Facts obviously play a subordinate role. In the meantime, television channels and daily journals have had to admit manipulations of pictures. Film sequences with Nepalese policemen beating demonstrators were sold as documentation of alleged Chinese police attacks.[11] The security forces’ saving a boy from an attacking Tibetan mob was coarsely labeled a violent arrest. Even Miles’ report was editorially presented in a context to focus on Chinese repression. For the purpose of comparison, german-foreign-policy.com documents excerpts of a CNN interview with the British journalist as well as the corresponding passage from a renowned German daily.[12]

    Anticipation

    The pogrom-like mob-violence not only created the necessary media profile for the current Tibet campaign, initiated with the help of the Friedrich Naumann Foundation, it also permits an insight into the character of Tibetan separatism. The “prime minister” of the Tibetan “Exile Government,” who had participated in the formulation of the plan of action at the May 2007 Tibet Conference in Brussels, had already at the end of the 1990s, expounded in the German media on his views of the future of non-Tibetans, who had immigrated to Tibet over the past 50 years. In the case of a successful secession, they will have to “return to China, or if they would like to remain, be treated as foreigners.” He explained the planned measures: “they will, in any case, not be allowed to participate in the political life.”[13] The prospect of discrimination against all non-Tibetan members of the population was anticipated in mid-March by mobs in their bloody attacks on Chinese and members of the Muslim minority.

    Please read also Strategies of Attrition (I), Strategies of Attrition (II), Strategies of Attrition (III), Strategies of Attrition (IV) and The Olympic Lever.

    [1] Doug Saunders: How three Canadians upstaged Beijing; Globe and Mail 29.03.2008. Die Konferenz wurde von der Friedrich-Naumann-Stiftung in Zusammenarbeit mit der selbsternannten tibetischen Exilregierung und einem interfraktionellen Zusammenschluss des belgischen Parlaments durchgeführt.

    [2] Die ersten vier “International Tibet Support Groups Conferences” fanden 1990 (Dharamsala), 1996 (Bonn), 2000 (Berlin) und 2003 (Prag) statt. Bereits die zweite Konferenz wurde von der Friedrich-Naumann-Stiftung organisiert.

    [3] Gerhardt kritisiert Belgien nach Absage des Dalai-Lama-Besuchs; http://www.fnst-freiheit.org 11.05.2007

    [4] Brussels Tibet conference roadmap for peace in Tibet; http://www.tibet.com 14.05.2007

    [5] Valedictory Speech, International Tibet Support Groups Conference 5th, Dr. h.c. Rolf Berndt, Executive Director, Friedrich-Naumann-Stiftung fuer die Freiheit,Brussels, 14th May 2007

    [6], [7}, [8] Doug Saunders: How three Canadians upstaged Beijing; Globe and Mail 29.03.2008

    [9] Transcript: James Miles interview on Tibet; CNN 20.03.2008

    [10] Chinese beaten mercilessly – tourists; Herald Sun 19.03.2008

    [11] Fotos aus Tibet; Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung 24.03.2008

    [12] see also Augenzeuge

    [13] “99 Prozent der Tibeter vertrauen in Seine Heiligkeit”; Berliner Zeitung 20.10.1997. Ähnlich hat sich erst kürzlich der Dalai Lama geäußert. “Alle Chinesen, die Tibetisch sprechen und die tibetische Kultur respektieren, können bleiben”, sagte er einer deutschen Zeitung – mit einer Einschränkung: “sofern es nicht zu viele sind”. “China mischt sich auch in Deutschlands Angelegenheiten ein”; Süddeutsche Zeitung 21.09.2007

  108. I changed my MSN to (L) Pussy.

  109. “In this sense, you were doing nothing smarter than some biased western media by purposely selecting the worst side and trying to make the rest of the people believe that this represent the majority of the Chinese, which is pathetical and totally wrong.”

    I totally agree that it does not represent the majority. I was offering another voice, that’s all. A voice that you may not have heard.

    I can’t see how that’s biased. That’s balanced, isn’t it?

    Now…

    “WE have lived in China for more than 5,000 YEARS and WE have extensive knowledge of it. WE ARE undoubtedly familiar with more of its cities, HISTORY, CULTURE AND THE REALITY through personal experience than most WESTERNERS. WE do not need you to patronise US as you seem to think is your duty.”

    That’s biased. That’s biased because you suggest that 1.3 billion people think and experience China in precisely the same way. From 1.3 billion different people, you produce a 5,000 year old ‘WE’.

    You deny, in fact, the specificity of the Tibetan people and their experience of China. You deny any individual voice.

    I wonder how old you really are… Are you even old enough to have seen the massacre at Tiananmen Square? I wonder…

  110. Hello~

    By the way I saw those in skype too. They’re spreading pretty fast, though the shape is different – it’s the Chinese flag in the shape of a heart.

    Anyway, I don’t know about all, but the people that I know with such a heart as an avatar were not the usual trolls you find in forums that yell nazi slogans. They’re just simple folks that have been dreaming of the Olympics and that don’t want to see their dream ruined, that’s all.

    Maybe I’ll put such an avatar too, although I don’t support China in general – I just support it this time because I think they’re right.

    By the way, I’m from Eastern Europe, and I’m not an ethnic Chinese.

    For the guy that said Chinese were all the same – well, of course. Why are you surprised? It’s a part of their culture and call it charm if you want. And being a part of the “herd” has helped them survive through the years.

    Think of it that way – they might look and think all the same way but at least they’re so much different from us. This is how they are “different” – not from each other but from the West.

    And just for the protocol – I came here following a link from BBS news. So, BBS is not that much bad after all:)

    (though they’re biased towards Russia and China, I must admit that…)

    Anyway, let’s not forget that the Olympics are about peace. So, why don’t we shake our hands and show what we could do on the stadiums?

  111. belacqua:

    u have been making ur afford to prove the chinese’s ulgy side……and u lost ur temper at last, it shows notthing about (L)china or any related info……….and its all going back massacre at Tiananmen Square…….sounds like u have really been there and ur familiy got killed by chinese military force……and about that poem is just disgusting…its like telling me how a person u really r (i throught u were a well educated good manner man who want to discussing sth about tibet independent at the first place)pls…seat back and think be4 u type…its not a 3 years old kid playing ground.

  112. Hi All

    May I ask have anyone of you been to Tibet??

    The Western media had distorted the facts of the present life of the Tibetians.

    The life of today’s Tibetians are much better than 50 years ago. If without the revolution of the CCP, there are many Tibetians still living in the dark aged slavery system.

    In the past only the Dalai lamas, lamas, monks, businessmen and landlords were considered upper class, most of the Tibetians were slaves. I would like to urge those who know nothing about Tibet, go there and see yourself. The exiles are the upper class Tibetians, they want to restore the old Tibet. If you are talking about human rights, then most of the Tibetians in Tibet will not agree the returns of Dalai lama and go back to the old slavery system.

  113. Does anybody really believe that doing nothing but praying in this miserable life could help the next life? Some Tibetans believe. That’s the real brainwashing. I was in Tibet back in 1996,at a time that tensions were relatively high between Dalai Lama and the government,and very few tourists there. I was shocked by so many beggars on the street,and even in restaurant,among them many lamas. When I asked a Tibetan shop owner why there were so many beggars. He said Tibetan people are not shameful of begging as they think it provides chances for the givers to accumulate good behavior,which in next life could return to them like a debt.Actually Lhasa was once called the “city of beggars”. It’s an amazing assessment,at least I thought that time. But when I saw a Tibetan family on the road between Lhasa and Qinghai, a couple with 2 girls and a little boy,making kowtow every step, I was shocked. The Tibetan driver told me that they were making pilgrimage from Qinghai to Lhasa,1000 miles crossing snowmountains. And they sold all their belongings in exchange of a golden lamp-cup,which they would devote to a particular monastery in Lhasa. As they should kowtow every step,the round journey would take years. The only way they could return home was to be beggars, the whole family. Many pilgrims would die on the way. I saw the couple were very devoted, but the children were so innocent and totally had no idea what were waiting for them ahead. This is the Tibetan tradition, a torturous tradition which is widely admired by westerners,especially Hollywood stars in their comfortable houses while talking with rich Lamas in Gucci shoes. These days many rich young Chinese join the admirers. But sorry, the reality is just not so entertaining.

  114. Hey rat in hat,

    is it for you to decide on WHAT and HOW the TIBETANS should believe or live their life?

    Someone without faith cannot understand the power of faith.

    I am Christian, I pray everyone, I visit the Church and I would gladly donate part of my income to the Church… that is my business and its not for people like to to tell me what to do with my money.

    Similarly, the Tibetans have the RIGHTS to decide on how they wish to spend their money.

    Typical commie-mentality to tell how to live their life collectively…..

  115. To to rat in hat

    Fact 1: Those Tibetans can still make their harsh journey of pilgrimage freely.While you claim your support for such stupid behaviors, would you send you children to the monastery(very likely to get sexually abused according to National Geographic) and deny their rights to the education of modern school? It’s the religions,especially the religion dominating in an isolated region,that force the collective thinking upon their people.I wonder how the surviving native Indians in south America were turned to Christian collectively.

    Fact 2: although we are still called communist country,nobody here believes in communism now. we are more capitalistic than any other nation in the world. As most of us are not religious devotees, we don’t have collective thinking so we are quite lost in spiritual terms. The government is actually afraid of collective thinking. They are more comfortable with a population not interested in politics than people with collective thinking involved in their political games. Tibetans have no problems to prey to their Buddha as some of us do in our temples. But if they want the whole society and population of Tibet to think collectively under a “God king”, and demand an independent kingdom of lamas, that’s the problem,not only for the government, but also with everyone with basic social conscience.

    Fact 3: anybody can put his money on whatever he wants,as far as it is not against the laws. Do you have the right to spend your money on drugs in your country? Do you have the right to donate your money to Bin laden? Freedom has its limits.But westerners translate freedom in their own convenience. Take the example of opium war, while the Britons didn’t hv the freedom to spend their money on opium at home, they gave the freedom for opium to Chinese people by a war. While you don’t hv the right to deny your children to schools at your home, you really support Tibetans,those without modern educations, to deny their children a different future by turning them to novices in monastery and wasting years on the harsh pilgrimage. Such a shame!!!

  116. Just a point of note – after attending (and being swept along) with the sea of people at the Jing’an Temple in Shanghai for the last two years in a row on CNY morning… there is definitely some religious ‘collective thinking’ there… :D

    There are more people in attendance on this one day than at the busiest Australian Rules football match on a sell-out day at the MCG in Melbourne.

  117. TO AUSSIE

    Religions in China,especially Buddhism, is something more cultural rather than faithful. Nobody is devotee, including the monks. People go to temples for good luck on finance,safety or health, usually by donating money. Once i challenged one of my friends, a self-claimed ” pious Buddhist”, ” how ridiculous that you are praying to get everything from Buddha ,while his teaching is just to give up.”

    “Tibetan Buddhism” is worse. It is a mixture of Buddhism with their local “Ben” religion. Buddha wanted a kingdom in heaven by peace,but lamas wanted a kingdom on earth by force. How sad Buddha should be if he knows somebody doing this in the name of his “reincarnation”.

  118. @rat in hat, it is sad to see the change of religion, like Buddhism, and the damage to the temples and religions are exactly something western world attacking China for “lack of religious freedom”. It is partly true because Christine and Buddhism in church and in temple are now with strange flavor, because monks and pastor are under the leadership of the Party who is Atheist.

    When I recite my politics book in middle school, I was so naive to ask: “The textbook is telling us religions are some the ruling class to fool its people, why we still keep those bad places like churches or temples?” I don’t know whether that is still in today’s textbook, but I guess that is why people’s perception of religion is not that positive.

    Regarding which religion is good or bad, we are not in a position to make that judgment.

  119. 1)I respect religions,every religions in its prime form. I bow to Buddha myself everytime before him. The religion is trying to give the answer to the ultimate question:”who we are ,where we are from, and where we are going”. Jesus’ teaching is also amazing. But things turned ugly while religions became tangled with politics,like inquisitions and crusades in Medieval Europe, or Islam’s “Jihad”. A religion couldn’t became official collective thinking without the support of ruling class. An Athiest regime is at least better than a religious regime,which usually oppress other briefs as infidels. If you want to know how Dalai lama oppresses other Buddhism sections even in his exile, you can ask the 400 Shugden lamas protesting him in his visit to Colgate university this April.

    Anyway,a lama-ruling kingdom, just like other theocracies, is just disgusting for me.

    2)In today’s china, forget the days of destruction in cultural revolution. Actually i am astonished by thousands of new temples mushrooming on this “athiest’ land every year, not only the quantity, but also the speed. See, religions are not necessary political. it could be very economical thing. The lesser of the two evils.

  120. @jiangshuo

    Further reading about the nature of religious oppression,even on their own people. very shocking but not surprising. It’s a letter that an oppressed sect of buddhism,in india and the states, worte to the “Godking”. It is something unrelated to the current conflicts,but very interesting.

    21st Century Buddhist Dictator – The Dalai Lama

    Dalai Lama, right now you are removing the Tibetan Shugden worshippers from the Buddhist community saying that Shugden worshippers are not Buddhist because they worship an evil spirit-Shugden, and at the same time you are preparing to remove the Western Shugden worshippers from the Buddhist community for the same reasons. Through your religious discrimination and extreme view, you have already expelled thousands of Tibetan Shugden practitioners from the Tibetan society. Not satisfied with this, you are now collecting signatures from people in the West and the East in which they state that they abandon Shugden worship and that they will not support materially or spiritually anyone who does practice Shugden worship.

    We understand that your aim in collecting these signatures is simply to protect your reputation-you want to blame the people for your breaking the law. Dalai Lama, you are a very professional liar. Your actions of Deity discrimination are directly against the constitution of the Indian Government, which means you are breaking Indian law. This is your fault alone; not the people’s fault. You should not blame others for your breaking the law. Many people are giving their signatures stating they abandon Shugden worship ONLY because they are afraid of your punishment if they do not. There are clear reports in the newspapers about these punishments. Others sign because they are your friends who are trying to protect your reputation.

    In our report on 29th February 2008, we asked you to show your evidence to prove that Shugden is an evil spirit: ‘If you are not telling lies and you have valid evidence to support your actions you should show such evidence publicly, and you should do this yourself not through your people who until now you have hidden behind, having them perform your dirty work’. You received a copy of our previous report and have not replied. Your silence proves that you have no valid evidence and that you have lied.

    Since 1996, you have continually said publicly that Shugden practice is harming your life and Tibetan independence. Many people who have blind faith in you believe what you say without investigating the actual truth. Consequently, they are extremely angry with Shugden practitioners and try to remove them from their society by many diferent means such as humiliation, provocation, intimidation, threatening, ostracism, removing jobs and positions, denying services, spreading false rumours, lies, manipulation, not allowing others to have material or spiritual relationship with them, not giving the monks food in their monasteries, not allowing the monks to attend classes and services at their monasteries, and forcing them to sign a promise that they will abandon the worship of the Deity Shugden.

    Through your actions of this lie, all Tibetans throughout the world are divided into two groups: 1) those who believe what you say concerning Dorje Shugden and who are consequently angry with Dorje Shugden practitioners, and 2) those who do not believe what you say concerning Dorje Shugden and are experiencing ostracism and great suffering and sorrow. This situation pervades everywhere in the East and in the West.

    The entire Tibetan community have lost their trust, peace and harmony, and are experiencing a very dangerous situation. The source of all these problems is you. Through your negative policies, the Kagyupas are divided into two groups, and they have lost their trust, peace and harmony, and their common spiritual activities. Gelugpas are also divided into two groups 1) those who follow your view believing that Shugden is an evil spirit, and 2) those who believe that Shugden is a Wisdom Buddha, and have subsequently lost their trust, peace and harmony, and their common spiritual activities and live in a dangerous situation. The source of all these problems is you.

    Until now you have repeatedly said that you are not seeking Tibetan independence and that you have not done anything to promote Tibetan independence, yet now you organise demonstrations against China! You are enjoying life in your luxurious palace while the poor Tibetan people are experiencing great sufering and danger. Your actions have caused all the Tibetans who live in Tibet to have a very difficult life because you have destroyed their internal trust, peace and harmony.

    As soon as you arrived to India as a refugee you made a plan to transform the four traditions of Tibetan Buddhism – Nyngma, Sakya, Kagyu and Gelug – into one single tradition called Rigme (Non Lineage) tradition. This was your method to destroy the pure lineages of the Nyingma, Sakya, Kagyu and Gelug and make you alone the head of all of them by establishing a new tradition. In this way you now have complete power and control of everything at a spiritual, political and material level.

    At that time, the Tso Kha Chusum (“Thirteen Groups of Tibetans) were against your plan and because of this for many years the Tibetan community lost their harmony and peace. Finally, the leader of the Tso Kha Chusum, Gungthang Tsultrim, was murdered by a shotgun. Tibetan people believe that Gungthang Tsultrim was killed by people working for you. Later, some other important members of the Tso Kha Chusum suddenly died, and people believed your organizations created the conditions for their death. It is said that you have a secret organization in New Delhi, led by your brother whose function is to destroy or kill anyone who opposes your plan.

    According to some sources, you were born in a Muslim family. When you were a child who did not know anything, some ignorant Tibetans acting as representatives of the Tibetan Government chose that boy as the reincarnation of the Tibetan Dalai Lama. Since that time, that boy wore saffron robes, and the local people jokingly nicknamed you as ´The Saffron Robed Muslim´. In this way, you received the position of the Tibetan Dalai Lama. Because of this, many people now keep your photograph on their shrines and worship you.

    You have received a higher education in Buddhism from your kind teacher Trijang Rinpoche. However, the sad situation is that after you arrived to India your behaviour changed. You were continually against the intention of your Root Guru, Trijang Rinpoche, who is the lineage holder of Je Tsonghapa´s doctrine. You strived strongly to destroy Trijang Rinpoche´s spiritual tradition, which is the pure tradition of Je Tsongkhapa´s doctrine.

    Since 1996, you have regarded Trijang Rinpoche´s followers as your enemies and you are now giving orders to the ordinary people and monasteries to expel them from their society. Following your views and your orders, many people believe that Trijang Rinpoche´s followers who practise Dorje Shugden are their enemies.

    In both India and Tibet, many Shugden temples, shrines, statues, paintings and texts have been unlawfully destroyed, and many monks have been expelled from their monasteries. Following your orders, the authorities of the monasteries are continually making efforts to expel the monks who have devotion for Trijang Rinpoche and who practise Dorje Shugden. In this way, you have caused millions of people great suffering and sorrow.

    All these horrible situations have developed through the power of your evil actions. This is our valid evidence to prove that you are not Buddhist. Because of this, we also believe that you are the saffron robed Muslim.

    Throughout your life you have pretended to be a Buddhist holy being giving Buddhist teachings that you have stolen from Trijang Rinpoche. By doing this, you have cheated people throughout the world. In summary, it is clear that your real nature is cruel and very evil.

  121. LOL, you sort you contacts and screen copy the CHINA section :)

    What a wonderful CNN picture cropping skill.

    (This proves again that people are not thinking)

  122. @rat in hat – just saw your post to me – sorry I’ve been travelling for business and not had opportunity to visit this site for a few days…

    I beg to differ on your suggestion that Buddhism in China is more about culture than faith… I understand the point you’re trying to make, but it’s very a very general one (perhaps based upon your observations? – I’m not sure of your (strange) thought processes). I don’t think it’s really for you to say whether or not praying for luck is a valid form of faith – if one believes in something without hard evidence of it’s existence, is it not faith? – this is the fundamental groundstone for any religion today.

    Most of my family and extended family in China are very strict in their Buddhist beliefs (them, and also many generations before them). My own immediate family are Christian – it would be naive of me to try and make a call on who is right and who is wrong – or which religion is better for that matter… I have my own beliefs and they are very personal to me.

    Regardless of your own faith or beliefs, I strongly suggest you refrain from insulting or pretending to understand the intricasies of others’ beliefs – especially with the gross generalizations and inaccuracies of your last post on this thread – are you one of these self-proclaimed theologists perhaps??

    I recommend you look to ‘real history’ rather than rely on media or anecdotal discussions to attain your knowledge.

  123. For those that Love China… Take a look at http://www.YouLoveChina.com

    :D

  124. I live in the United States but took six years of Mandarin Chinese in school. I have never been overseas. I don’t watch the news and don’t pay attention to politics. So when I told someone I was considering getting cable so I can watch the Olympics this year, they acted all surprised, so I asked why, and they said they weren’t watching the Olympics because of the China-Tibet thing. That doesn’t make any sense to me because I think the Olympics should have nothing to do with politics, just pure athletics and sporting competition. It made me sad to think that so many people are using it as an excuse to further widen the rift created by those other issues. :(

  125. Hi,

    It might be interesting to know that a counter MSN viral already is launched, stating: Love (L) China & Human Rights. It is created for all those people who are sick of the constant China bashing in the press, who are proud of their country but still want to speak out for human rights too!

    Love (L) China & Human Rights

    more info: http://www.boomerang.nl/humanrights

    Love,

    Maeve

  126. hey man

    this is a free world, we’re free to express our love for our own country

    normal!

    losers

  127. I’m a Chinese, and I hate the government and the cpc because the deprived me of the right to speak!

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    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  128. China on in order to how many energy Olympic Games has paid and the money, what trades is, you know? In every way trouble, in every way question.Our Chinese harbors the mood which incomparably is honored to hope for Olympic Games’ arrival, for is lets the world know a genuine China, in 5000 invariable China. I want to ask my US “the friend”: Your Mr. BUSH said Iraq has the large-scale nuclear facility, has looked for the long time on that desert, has killed how many innocent person, but also pesters endlessly in here with us, quibbles! You are group of villains, group of scoundrels! I more than once have looked at your American evil intention responsibility foreign country on BBS, if Russia, Iran, Iraqi as well as Europe and Asia many countries, haven’t you awakened, you should illuminate your face, who has a look is most unclean?! The elder brother, get down, lets you Mr. BUSH go home that top pig feed to feed you this crowd of pitiful young pig pigs!

  129. AMERICANS ARE THE WORST. THE REST OF THE WORLD IS THE BEST.

  130. Every time you start a conversation using the new version of MSN Messenger, Microsoft shares a portion of the program’s advertising revenue with some of the world’s most effective organizations dedicated to social causes.

  131. Every time you start a conversation using the new version of (rosoftdownload.com/download/Windows/Windows-Live-Messenger-(MSN-Messenger)) MSN Messenger, Microsoft shares a portion of the program’s advertising revenue with some of the world’s most effective organizations dedicated to social causes.

  132. Bahahaaa Is that all you got online Bahhaa Cant get over it i got about 67 everyday

  133. You westerners should keep quiet untill you known the truth about China or the so-called “human right.

    And all that I WANT to say about the Tibetans is we broken their Serfdom and make most of them lived a better life.

    We do not discriminate any faith believer, and we do not kill Musilims as well as, we respect Musilims .

  134. ppl can find thousands of reasons to disagree anything they dont like…none of the countries in the world has “human rights”, every country has racism, if that exists, no human rights will exist…freedom?really? which country has freedom? no! not even america…jokes! and u ppl have to stop lookin at china as in 1950s/1960s/1970s…o and one more thing, becuz of communism so u dislike/hate china? hmmm…then i guess u guys r not justice, free and have no human rights either! o burnnnnnnnn

  135. ppl can find thousands of reasons to disagree anything they dont like…none of the countries in the world has “human rights”, every country has racism, if that exists, no human rights will exist…freedom?really? which country has freedom? no! not even america…jokes! and u ppl have to stop lookin at china as in 1950s/1960s/1970s…o and one more thing, becuz of communism so u dislike/hate china? hmmm…then i guess u guys r not justice, free and have no human rights either! o burnnnnnnnn

  136. o yea, and u ppl say we chinese dont think? and the msn status doesnt mean anythin? wat about u guyssss huhuhuh? say god bless america all the time, do u guys really believe in god or do u guys even love god? then y u guys still make fun of god/jesus?! u guys think??? and um…when u guys say i love ameica/ i love uk/ ilove france… do u guys really mean to? (if u guys think we chinese dont really mean to say that and we dont think) then i can say u guys dont think either…u guys r jokesss stop criticizin ppl whatever reasons u guys have, i thought u guys r god’s children u guys r suppose to love everyone as a neighbor…i guess thats a joke too? u guys dont think eitherrr..sadddd

  137. @Crazyy’Alien:

    hi crazyy’alien, y is ur name crazyy’alien? thats quite interestin owait its u! sorry for realizin that so late, hi crazzy’alien again! have fun in ur crazzy’planet, and remember to fuck urself everyday, dont forget, 67 times everyday =]

  138. Perfectly Round Freshwater Pearl Necklaces Needed

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