I got an email. It encourages me to act as “a patriot”, and writing something to boycott Japanese goods. I don’t like to mention this topic. Since people asked, this is my personal opinion of why I don’t like to do that.
The Topic of Patriotism, or Love to my Country
It is trendy to spread one’s love to the country by showing how much they hate a foreign country or a foreigner. It is very common, especially in the younger generation in China. I don’t think some government are doing the right thing, but I am not a big fan of hating something.
Patriotism means love. It means genuinely love people in your hometown, around you. It means to love the places you live in, the relationship you have. It can mean many things, but all around love, instead of hate.
In the blogger conference in Hangzhou, I met many old friends, and when I write the blog, each vivid face appears in my mind, and I do enjoy being with them, and love the land where all these lovely people live on, and enjoy being part of them. This is my cultural identity that I enjoy to have. When I think about this, I feel so happy about being in China, and feel proud about it. I guess, this can be called a feeling of “patriot”, if you want to abstract it to that level.
However, for whatever reason, people not translate patriotism to hate to anything against China. It is right that one has the responsibility to keep one’s country safe, strong, and enjoyable, but it does not mean to harm other countries, or draw an evil image of another country. People should show more love to his/her own land, instead of hate to people on other land.
I am aware of history. I am clearly aware of history. However, it is exactly what I learnt from WWII that we should not start WWIII. Anything leading to that direction concerns me. There are a strong intention to start war or something on BBS in China. I simply not a big fan of it, and I am proud (instead of feel bad) of not thinking that way.
Well. That is a simple note about my stake on this issue. It is not political correct for many people, and I know if I post it onto any of Chinese BBS, it will make many people so comfortable (how sad!). However, it works for me. When I am thinking about love, I am willing to do a lot of things to make the people around me feel better. If I think about hate, I really don’t have the incentive to do some positive contribution to the small piece of land in this world I am living on.
Jian Shuo, this is one of the very best descriptions of true patriotism I have ever read! To love one’s own country, in no way should necessitate or cause hatred of someone else’s. If I love and am proud to be a member of my own family, does that in any way imply that I should despise other people’s families if they are in some way different from my own? We are all “just people”, after all. Whether the people of any country agree or disagree with the politicians who are in charge of some of the decision-making and policies, does not mean that we should not be able to get along with the people of anothr country whose politicians and policies differ from our own. Far better, I think, to join a movement in *support* of something about which you feel enthusiastic, rather than to spread negative energy in the world by joining a protest *against* something. Just let the positive energy (love) become bigger and stronger than the negative energy (hate) and the “regular people” will get along fine no matter what the politicians are up to!
I agree with Carroll. That is a great sentiment. I think the English term you could use for overt or blind patriotism is ‘Jingoism’.
Don’t allow anyone to paint you into a corner by using an emotive term like patriotism to belittle your ideas or values. Yes, you can show your love your country in other ways instead of blind fury against country X.
It is people like yourself that can show other’s the way.
Good one!
-Tim
I can not agree you more.
I agree that politicians in their statements oftentimes generate feelings of ill-will toward another country and its people. Once a prejudice is sown, it is hard to undo the damage.
I dunno why people hate each. hasn’t anybody heard of forgive n forget
as Rodney King once said: “Hey people, we all need to get along. Put away the clubs and let’s just talk.”
I am not big fan of your post, but this one really says something. Nice post.
jiang, for the first time.. good one.. well done!
Jian Shuo, I’m with you.
Yes, we must not forget the history, but we should learn to forgive and look forward. I think everyone can feel your love but not hate, in return you will get many loves from us.
I agree with Jerry, for the first time.. good one.. well done!
does anyone heard before “what goes around, comes back around”. If you’re hate others, others can hate you too.
A person will be happier if he/she learn how to forgive.
Wonderful!
If only the whole world can have a peice of this, Mr Wang.. Surely it will
make a difference.
Will you love a murderer who killed your family? Will you love the murderer who did not admit his crime and refused to apologize for his crime even with so many evidence around? Will you forgive him? One is paid for what he did. The murderer asked for “hate”.
Yes, Love makes the world better, I do love people around me, do good to others. It is not a contradiction to love good people and hate the murderer.
Touch wood! You put it so succinctly. If all of the whole world thinks like this, we would never have any problems that we see in everyday life.
GOD BLESS YOU JIANSHUO.
it’s the first time i leave a comment here, though i have read ur blog for more than a year. i am chinese, and i’m now learning business in a quite famous university in beijing.
i agree with ur opinion. as u wrote, the idea of start a WWIII has become quite common on the internet. but we all know that most people in china do not take responsbility of what they said on the internet. do they really “hate” japanese? it’s hard to tell. most of us use japanese products, lots of young people in china enjoy the japanese TVshows, cartoons and musics.
we should not *hate* the Japanese of today based on the Japanese of a half century ago anymore than we should hate the Germans.
Start a WWIII?
These kids must be kidding. They don’t know how cruel war is. Sigh, young kids are living a too comfortable life.
Hi Jian Shuo
You should post this on your Chinese blog too. Young people in China now are desperately in need of different opinions and stories. Hope your words can make people think.
Tim
I think “Jingoism” is a vocal translation of the Chinese word “军国(Jun Guo)主义”. It has often been applied to the country we hate, but never the other way around.
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xge: The word jingoism predates the Chinese phrase by many decades. It has its origins in the phrase “by Jingo” which was used in a popular song sung in British pubs back in the 19th century. That phrase itself goes as far back as the 17th century. It’s supposedly a less sinful way of saying “by Jesus”.
Herbert
Thanks for the correction.
And Wikipedia has more infomation.
About 军国主义
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%86%9B%E5%9B%BD%E4%B8%BB%E4%B9%89
About Jingoism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingoism
Great post.
As a Chinese, I too believe that people should maintain a positive attitude in their judgment of other people.
For example, few Chinese people realise that Japan was the first Asian country to defend itself against Western powers; Qing dynasty China was hopeless, and the Republic was divided and weak. Without Japanese imperialism, East Asia might have gone the way of India or Africa in the early 20th century, colonised and oppressed. China might look more like Cambodia now.
There are two sides to every debate, and unfortunately, many people see only what they’re taught to see.
God bless China and you, sire. Or, Mr. Nippo.
Eye for eye, blood for blood. Bible said this. Jesus loves everyone even scrafied for the people who wanted murdering him.
If you were Jesus, please stop Nippo’s slaughtering and insulting to China and another countries. If you ain’t, please don’t play god or be payment writer for Mr. Nippo.
Hideki Tojo said Nippon would never stop owning the world. And if he might come back, he would redo as he did.
Love everyone and love the world. Jesus does that. Are you Jesus or just a chinese or Mr. Nippo?
As for me, Patriotism means when your county called upon on you, you are willing and ready to put your life on the line to serve your country’s interests unconditionally.
Are you ready to do that? If you are not, you are not patriotic to your country, as simple as that!
great site
“As for me, Patriotism means when your county called upon on you, you are willing and ready to put your life on the line to serve your country’s interests unconditionally.
Are you ready to do that? If you are not, you are not patriotic to your country, as simple as that!”
That’s called backwater ignorance. Many such “patriots” don’t even know why they should die for their country, because they’re too stupid to understand.
I also reject the hate of other countries.
But it should be interesting to think why so many Chinese hate Japanese? (I also know history, and history of many other countries) Why they are push to hate Japanese people? Why does so many people agree to hate Japanese? is it frustration ? or maybe complaining against Japanese is the only political things that young Chinese are allowed (and encouraged) to complain about…
A few quotations:
=>”Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.” – Charles de Gaulle
=>”Nationalism is an infantile disease, the measles of mankind.” — Albert Einstein
“Been patriotic” is not about been “right” or “wrong” morally. It is about been royal to your own side It’s like cheering on your hometown team regardless they are winning or losing. It is also means stop your enemy before the enemy can cause harm on you, whether the enemy is terrorist, xxxnese, yyyycan, bird flu virus or flood.
Ben, since you are not so stupid, would you please share some of your wisdom on whether the person whom dropped the “Little Boy / Fat Man” is been “right” or “wrong”? Thanks!
I smell sarcasm. ;)
A military man is required to be obedient to his commanders, which is completely irrelevant to this discussion. Case in point: a “good” soldier would have dropped Little Boy on Seattle if that was the official command, despite it being against his patriotic common sense.
By the way, that has nothing to do with right or wrong. Which is why I never brought up the issue of being right.
You lost there Ben. “Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first”
“Drop a bom? on Seattle by its own people” has a different description. The word “Suicide” came to my mind.
An obedient soldier faces many suicidal commands in times of war.
I don’t think you understand what you are saying. You asked a military question about Little Boy, and I provided a military response. Obeying commands and patriotism are unrelated.
ILH and Ben, from which countries are you ? You description of soldiers and patriotism makes me afraid !!!
Your patriotic soldiers are the same as Japanese soldiers during world war 2. They follow the orders without thinking. we have see the result!
By the way in some countries the soldiers have rules, that they must follow first! The obedience to orders is required only if the orders do not go against these rules! Most of these rules come from Geneva convention (Do not kill unarmed civilian, do not rape, etc…).
According to China recent history… I think here soldiers only follow orders even if it means shoot pacifist students on a famous square. And they can do horrible things without being punish (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omDIGSDOqQ4).
That is sad!
ILH must be a chinese. I can already see his ignorance and blind faith in the chinese govt and popularised hatred towards Japan andits ppl. Can’t you?
Yes. I agree with “mynameisnobody” that it is scary to hear such deluded interpretations of ‘patriotism” from young chinese ppl. If there is a WW3, i wouldn’t doubt that it would be china who started it.
Beware
ILH,
I remember very clearly that the first thing my professor taught me when I was a freshman at uni was “patriotism is reversed discrimination”. These words stayed with me till now even though I eventually dropped out of politics (3 years ago) because it was too much for me to take. Especially when I met my ex-boyfriend who is/was a chinese. If you want to lamment on how “bad” Japanese people are during WW2, then maybe you would also like to reflect on how much of a nusience chinese people are in other parts of the world TODAY??
Jesus did say eye-for-eye and tooth-for-tooth, but didn’t he also said “love everyone like your own brothers and sister”? And, I’m sure he preaches about forgiveness coz he forgave all our sins and died on the cross not just for you or me, but for everyone.
If you want to use a part of the history (or bible) as an example to support your belief, then you gotta see the whole picture behind it. And that’s the biggest problem regarding young people in China today. They see one part of something and jump to conclusions based just on that very tiny part of a big picture. These young people generally have a very distorted and narrow view of the world thinking everyone and especialy Japanese owe them something…not to mention the fact that they believe they are the big brother on the world stage of politics and that China is a developed and rich country ready to overtake USA anytime. However, thats not my point. I don’t care who is the big brother as long as he is not an evil one…and definitely NOT communist (phew…)
What I am saying is “hatred is like a vicious cycle” so why can’t you (ILH) just let the past be passed and break out of it???
I said patriotism is for stupid people, people too dumb to understand how politics works. ILH doesn’t like rational thinking, and thinks people should be patriotic and suicidal.
“Your patriotic soldiers are the same as Japanese soldiers during world war 2.”
Everybody committed evils during WW2, both the Allies and the Axis. That’s a moot point.
I’m in the US. Patriotism is a disease here too, just like in China – some Americans are very judgmental of other cultures and think they are kings of the world. People need to distinguish between pride, the love of one’s country, and patriotism, the blind and stupid obedience thereof.
My two cents – no need to be afraid of my opinion. ;)
No where in my prior comments spread hatreds to another! I simply state as a citizen of a-nation (any nation, whether it is China, Japan, or Fiji for that matter) it is your duty to serve your country when you are called upon. When you responded that call, you are patriotic to your country. When you hesitated or refuse to serve, you are not patriotic to your country. It should not be that complicated.
Ben does not have royalty. He does not know what patriot is. He left his birth country, came to America seeking for a better life. But when it come downs on duty, he wants no part of it. He is too smart to put his life on the line for anything. He would rather choose to run then serve, again, when
Smart people serve mankind and help preserve it. Patriots serve people that want to destroy mankind with selfish lies.
ILH, are you Japanese? Cause it’s spelled “loyalty.”
People like me can forget past mistakes. “Patriots,” on the other hand, want to start WW3 because of the legacy of WW2. Is this ignorant “duty” what humanity, our species, is about? War isn’t about who is right, it’s about who is left. If nobody survives, does it matter who is right? Why shouldn’t people think for themselves? Don’t people have a right to disagree when their leaders make stupid decisions? If you want loyalty and duty, go to North Korea.
“Smart people serve mankind and help preserve it. Patriots serve people that want to destroy mankind with selfish lies.”
Ben, I dare you share your above statements with the American veterans and their families. They will chase you out of their country.
It’s funny, ppl love their love and hate their hate, so what bothers you?
being an influential blog, i don’t think it is wise to raise the topics like polity, nationalism , racism, or something like that, it will probably incur something you dont wanna happen, especially in some sensitive issues in china.
so i strongly suggest you keep do your own things to please your expat friends in shanghai. I beg they are know-all-except-for-china.
“Ben, I dare you share your above statements with the American veterans and their families. They will chase you out of their country.”
People here are used to liberals. Nobody is chasing anybody out of the country. Maybe hate, but not chase. ;) Also, you assume all veterans are the same. John Kerry is a veteran, for example, but he thinks more like me than you on the issue of war. He’s even protested, and I haven’t.
“There are a strong intention to start war or something on BBS in China.”
Are You Kidding??? Is this a reasonable statistical data???
You are misleading so many people here reading your blog, and I think you a little like a flatterer to write this blog like Zhang Yimou or Chen Kaige.
So Disappointed!
“I don’t think some government are doing the right thing, but I am not a big fan of hating something”, so you will do nothing with “some government” and go on fun your people. If everyone do like you, so the whole China will happily enjoy any results from what “some government” do.
Is that your logic?
China has done better under Hu than America under Bush. Though that might not be saying much, it certainly doesn’t mean people have to start a revolution for every misfortune. :)
There was no right or wrong during WWII. It is basically a survival game by human being in a large scale. Unfortunately China that time was in the weak side. Jews also was in the weak side. All wars are based on the control of resource, which supports certain group of people to survive, or maintain certain kind of living standard. Remember that labor is resource, too. Nation is a big group of people. British and French and their decendants occupied vast land of the earth comparing to the size of their population, then ban other poeple to go to those “new” land. It is very natural for other group of people to fight their “right” or “share”, specificlly the German. Japan had the right to fight their “share”, too, but took the wrong target to China, because China’s share of the world land is not that big with the size of the population. As today’s Chinese people, or India people, still count in Japan, it is natural to have the think of “fight for the proper share of the earth”. Please do not be surprised.
Nick said : “There was no right or wrong during WWII”
How can you say something like that ?
I do not see the need to kill 6 millions Jewish people.
What you say about “survival game” is for animals, human use technical progress to increase the resource, and human are intelligent in the way that they have the value of the good and the bad.
By the way, Germany and Japan never succeed as much than during the peace after the war. so your theory is bullshit!
If you are right, western countries should directly stop supporting China rise by stopping importing Chinese goods (without export china collapse… it is 30% of china GDP).
And before attacking Japan because it is said in China that Japan did not recognize their history, Chinese should look to their own history, and recognize the horrible things that has been done. (One example: 1 millions Tibetan killed by Chinese after having “liberate” them from their independence… and still shooting them as dog: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omDIGSDOqQ4 , or the tortures that is still used, and which was wildly use from 1949-1980, etc…)
So… stop hate… start looking to your own history (through the censorship), do not hate the other for what they have done, but learn from their mistakes how you can not do the same…. and have sex! (after sex you are more peaceful :P )
The debate seems to be hot between ben, rick, ILH and MyNameIsNobody.
I do not want to spend to much time on this subject.
So, please find the followings, it is a post of a guy that do not like (Chinabounder) but who do not say only stupid things… he made a quite good summary about the lake of knowledge of most of Chinese people who are only taught to hate Japaneses and not taught what happen.
Chinabounder: “It was 60 years ago. Why are you still angry?”
Student: “They have not apologized for the war.”
Chinabounder: “They have. Numerous times, for example Prime Minister Tomiichi Murayama in 1995, or PM Ryutaro Hashimoto in 1997, or Junichiro Koizumi in 2005.”
Student: “Oh are you sure? I never heard that. Well.. anyway they do not teach the truth in their history books.”
Chinabounder: “The history book to which you agree is indeed offensive.” (Smile of righteous victory begins to play across student’s face; student’s shoulders begin to tense back in patriotic fervor)
Chinabounder: “But it is taught in less than one percent of schools.”
Student: “Oh are you sure? I never heard that.”
Chinabounder: “I am. Let me ask you a question. Do you think educators or the government should choose the syllabus in your university?”
Student: “Educators. The government does not know what it best, and I wish at my university the teachers could decide what to teach.”
Chinabounder: “Well, in Japan, educators decide what to teach, not the government. The content of the books is not a direct government choice. ”
Student: : “Oh are you sure? I never heard that.”
Chinabounder: “When that book was published, there were large demonstrations against it. 30,000 people marched in the streets to protest it.”
Student: “Oh are you sure? I never heard that.”
Me: “What do you think would happen if people tried a public demonstration like that here?”
Student giggles.
[…]
Have a good week end !
China should look to its own history text before point fingers at others for their own misfortune. If any developed countries (I refrain from using the word “western” countries because Japan and other developed Asian countries account for more than 50% of China’s growth directly. And if China still doesn’t regconise its own faults, then I am all for these countries Asian, western or even African to boycott it. period. The truth is as simple as that.
PS: I am NOT Japanese before anyone here says so…blah blah blah….I don’t know why anything anti-china must be said by a Jap…I don’t get it but that’s the way it is at the moment.
Ohh, My Name Is Nobody, I have read that it was 2 mill. tibetans the cihinese killed… Out of 6 mill. = 4 mill. left. And still, they shoot at them ! Latest incident 8 killed on sept. 30 2006, recorded by researchers at the glacier they crossed. Anyone outside China can see that on the Net.
About the japanese books, it is right that some books favourize the japanese acts duting the war (and before). But, what did the chinese do ? Please round up the weed in the backyard before accusing others.
The african meeting : Dictators meets with dictators.
We in the west will now know, that we will be supporting both Myanmar, North Korea and all the dictators in Africa, when we buy the chinese goods.
Thank you, China.
Gives so much comfort in believing in a free and happy world…
I believe the Japanese, the americans and the europeans soon will wake up and set some demands for the things they buy so cheap !
And, still no progress for the poor in China.
And still, I am helping the chinese government in developing by my work here…
Maybe I’m completely stupid ?
hge, Wikipedia is banned in China. Too free.
China’s own history books are pretty laughable. I remember one that said the Ming Dynasty stretched all the way to Lake Baikal and Irkutsk in Russia.
As I said earlier, Japan deserves more praise for its historical role as the first Asian country to fight the west. Without Japan, China may have been colonised, and for a long time.
Let’s also not forget the greatest racial extermination in history… that of the Native Americans here in the United States.
To Carsten: Good news !!! After one year being block Wikipedia is unblock !!! Except the Chinese version and some English article such as tiananmen massacre, falungong, and so one. But it is still a progress !!!
:P
Talking of history books, not only the Chinese version has been distorted, the world history have somewhat modified to conceal the aggression of certain countries.
At the beginning of Sino-Japanese conflict started at 1937, US was sided with Japan and supplied her with all the raw material in needs of the aggression. At the summer of 1940, US and Japan realation suddenly went sour and oil embargo followed which eventually started the raid on Pearl Harbour, the official version we can see today of the US-Japan turned hostile at the eve of the Pacific War is US switched side to China and tried to stop the war machine of Imperial Japanese force.
The fact is China never recieved any aids from US prior to Pearl Harbour and the truth cause of the Pacific War have been ‘white washed’.
Last month, the description of the US oil embargo prior of the Pacific War displayed at Yasukuni has been removed at the request of US government, even Wikipedia has a ‘diluted’ version of the cause.
Perhaps the truth cause will never be known to the younger generation.
can americans please stop seeing the world thru their american views because i am talking abt china’s agression to other asian countries..they have no rights to blame japan…geez…stop linking everything to usa..where was usa when china invaded tibet, vietnam, cambodia and burma????????
you guys piss me off
For such a topic discussing here, I like to speak out the truth, not the just political right words. I do not hate other people, do not hate other country. Hate is only for weak-mind person. China does not need to start war, but must have the mind to prepare any unavoidable future wars. There is no God to pretect us, and we do not want to bet our life in the sake of other countries. Sorry to say, all of us are just animals, even we can communicate each other instantly from thousands of miles away.
chinese people dont know how good they have it until they lose it.. hu jintiao is a great president and communism is not bad.. if china had the same laws/government as usa..the whites would be thriving right now in china….marrying all their girls after creating the images white is “cool”…and taking away many more preciuos things from the chinese people… also china would be a divided nation right now coz the whites would be at the center of everything from government to business….the whites would like very much to gain control/say in china right now…i believe it would be much better for the government to make choices for now coz if it stopped..that would be the end of china..coz this “supreme westerners” claim everyday they love and care about china.. ok..if they did why do they continue painting negative images of china through their media houses at home? …answer is coz they dont want their populations at home to have a big interest in or love china thus pulling in more attention to this super power..ie..through tourismn… as for the chinese youth love for the western lifestyle that i find ok since it is mostly cool(but not made cool by whites… mind you!…by latinos and blacks…. ok) and it is the chinese who manufacture most of the products anyway…..but the chinese should know that the hospitality they show this whites in china wont be shown to any of them no matter how bleached you can be once you step in any western country…ok? they will be discriminated upon stepping/landing there …100% true and you can ask any ordinary chinese who has been in the usa…. ok! chinese should everyday love this great nation and keep it free of white brainwashing coz that is what most whites are good at ok! love your country and dont help the whites to torment your government so as to distabilise your own lifes/growth in the future……and i love all people but there are some whites who just have this peculiar look towards other races drawn on their faces even when you chat them up……just be keen and look clearly at them and you will see it clearly ……its called the superiority complex…..mostly its a grin kind of a smile but not quite…ha busted! and the word is some not all, but they really do have nice women to play with though..but again with caution…..!
ccf – your post comes off as a white-hating piece, which is exactly the opposite of what the blogger strives to preach. If you hate them, go have sex with a white woman, and in fact, go rape one if you are so angry won’t you?
You are looking at pariotism in the right context, and that can’t be said better for everyone else. Most people are blinded by ignorance rather than embrace their own. Frequently they ask “who can they annihilate today?” to show they are patriotic.
How pathetic.
BTW, I suggest the government cautions using the phrase that the Communists ]were responsible for driving out the Japanese during WWII. In fact, there are sources suggesting that they intentionally allow the Japanese to have their way with the Nationalist army and did not stop the atrocities at Nanking when they had the chance.
“In fact, there are sources suggesting that they intentionally allow the Japanese to have their way with the Nationalist army and did not stop the atrocities at Nanking when they had the chance.”
… there are also sources that say there were no atrocities in Nanking… please have some real factual support when you make a statement like that.
You do bring up the truth though that, whether intentionally or unintentionally, the Japanese invasion was benificial to the Communists in the civil war against the KMD afterwards.
So,
If everyone wants to play the blame game, the Chinese people, the Tibetans, the vietnamese, should still blame the Imperial Japanese army for greatly helping to put a Communist government in China thats been able to rule for the past 50 years.
From this point of view, imperial Japan had inadvertantly chosen this present government instead of the Japan loving Taiwan government to rule its huge neighbor.